This patch aims to make the choice of heroes less obvious and more based on the strategy employed by the player.
Changes discussed with: @smiley @Feldfeld @temple @Hannibal_Barca
Details
Test hero auras and see if they work.
Test them from the balancing point of view.
Review and commit for A24, let A23 be imbalanced so we can collect more complaints and blames.
Diff Detail
- Repository
- rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
- Lint
Lint Skipped - Unit
Unit Tests Skipped - Build Status
Buildable 5843 Build 9781: Vulcan Build Jenkins
Event Timeline
Add new files
Adjust Chandragupta and Seleucus
Remove changes already committed by temple.
Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.
Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/differential/384/display/redirect
I want to keep this diff clean, but yes it should be done.
Seleucids and Persians both have the unique cavalry technology. This is to limit the potential strength of a mass cavalry spam (the heroes reduced affect cavalry)
Brasidas affects citizens only, Leonidas less bonus but affects a wider category. Agis is a good all-round hero if the player doesn't want to specialize.
As for the ranges of +20% heroes, it could be an idea. But I'm not sure yet.
You probably want to click “Plan Changes”. For the aura tooltip format established at the end of 2019, see the style guide. Also feel free to include D2648 in some form.
It's probably best to have a critical look at all hero auras in game. I found a python script in my files that I last used a year ago, but was written by someone else (I'm not sure who; @fatherbushido?); here it is:
[EDIT] I ran it again now and here is the current output:
It's probably best to have a critical look at all hero auras in game.
There are some other heroes that could use a small buff, like Boudica as mentionned in another patch, but the ones addressed in this patch are the priority I think.
There are some other heroes that could use a small buff, like Boudica as mentionned in another patch, but the ones addressed in this patch are the priority I think.
But if only some are changed and other heroes are left untouched, wouldn't that distort gameplay balance?
While Alexander did (re)found many settlements, I do not know of any theatres he supposedly erected. He certainly did not found any libraries. The first real library was founded by Ptolemy I, who had heard of Aristotle's enormous book collection. Therefore him trebling those build limits is inappropiate, please remove that change.
Another thing, please remove Alexander's bonus attack vs heroes (lines 3 to 12 and line 22); while he did participate in pitched battles, like other kings before and after him, and was occassionally wounded, he's not known to have personally killed anyone in single combat. (He did, however, slay several of his closest friends when drunk.)
Furthermore, I'd appreciate it if the first aura ("Structures +10% territory influence radius.", globally) could be replaced with a local aura, e.g. Melee units +1 armour level and +10% movement speed, to reflect the fact that he was a conqueror who kept his army while moving on and on, and won victorious thanks to his superior heavy (i.e. melee) infantry and cavalry.
Darius increasing the apadana limit is appropiate: the design of the famous one he built in Persepolis was based on the slightly older one he built in Susa, another Persian capital.
I'll have another critical look at other the aura changes later.
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/athen_hero_pericles_3.json | ||
---|---|---|
11 ↗ | (On Diff #12296) | "Structures −20% resource costs." |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/spart_hero_agis.json | ||
4 ↗ | (On Diff #12296) | Why Siege? |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_hero_darius.xml | ||
16 | Unnecessary line, revert. | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_kardakes_hoplite.xml | ||
15 | This does not seem to do anything? Better not touch this file then. | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_kardakes_skirmisher.xml | ||
15 | idem |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/spart_hero_agis.xml | ||
---|---|---|
6–8 | Now he has an aura, remove this line. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_hero_darius.xml | ||
---|---|---|
16 | Oops, actually this line is necessary. |
But if only some are changed and other heroes are left untouched, wouldn't that distort gameplay balance?
Not more than it is now, since the patch aims at fixing auras of the weakest heroes to match the strongest, or have some sort of usefulness. But i'll try changing auras of other heroes if I have some ideas.
Another thing, please remove Alexander's bonus attack vs heroes (lines 3 to 12 and line 22); while he did participate in pitched battles, like other kings before and after him, and was occassionally wounded, he's not known to have personally killed anyone in single combat. (He did, however, slay several of his closest friends when drunk.)
Okay, it wasn't useful anyway
Furthermore, I'd appreciate it if the first aura ("Structures +10% territory influence radius.", globally) could be replaced with a local aura, e.g. Melee units +1 armour level and +10% movement speed, to reflect the fact that he was a conqueror who kept his army while moving on and on, and won victorious thanks to his superior heavy (i.e. melee) infantry and cavalry.
Done, do you have an idea for the new aura name ?
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/spart_hero_agis.json | ||
---|---|---|
4 ↗ | (On Diff #12296) | To make the aura stronger I think, in compensation to the 45m radius. If the attack and armor bonus for soldiers is judged strong enough then I can remove it, I guess I could use opinions of other players for that. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_kardakes_hoplite.xml | ||
15 | This was a problem introduced in a previous patch, the Xerxes aura files were deleted at some point. | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/spart_hero_agis.xml | ||
6–8 | I don't understand |
I'm not sure what is going on here but hero auras could really use some uniqueness. I feel like everything is some sort of +% attack / +1 armour / movement seped which kinda makes it monotone and boring
This I fully agree with!
I'm not sure what is going on here but hero auras could really use some uniqueness. I feel like everything is some sort of +% attack / +1 armour / movement seped which kinda makes it monotone and boring
Suggestions are welcome.
Not more than it is now, since the patch aims at fixing auras of the weakest heroes to match the strongest, or have some sort of usefulness.
Thanks for the explanation, that wasn't clear from the summary.
Done, do you have an idea for the new aura name ?
- Alexander's Army
- Conqueror of the Known World
- Great Conqueror
- Macedonian Discipline
- Skilled Troops
Personally I like Anabasis, but only few people know what that means.
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/athen_hero_pericles_3.json | ||
---|---|---|
7–8 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | List stone before metal. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/gaul_hero_brennus.json | ||
4 | Why not ["Unit !Animal"]? | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/mace_hero_alexander_1.json | ||
3 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | Maybe make it 50 or 60? |
6–8 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | The correct order is Hack, Pierce, Crush. |
12 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | units → Soldiers |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/mace_hero_alexander_2.json | ||
3–4 | Maybe make it 50 or 60? | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/maur_hero_chandragupta_1.json | ||
6 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | { "value": "TerritoryDecay/DecayRate", "replace": 0 } |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/maur_hero_chandragupta_2.json | ||
1–9 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | Why? |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/pers_hero_xerxes_2.json | ||
3 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | Useless if D2742 is committed. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/sele_hero_seleucus_victor.json | ||
9–11 | Hack, Pierce, Crush. | |
15 | "auraDescription": "Champion Elephants +1 armor, +25% melee attack damage, but −10% movement speed.", | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/spart_hero_agis.json | ||
12–14 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | |
17 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | Remove the second sentence. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/special/player/player.xml | ||
49 | Then the limit goes down again. <LimitChangers> are not permanent, they're based on the actual number of relevant entities you have. | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/mace_hero_alexander.xml | ||
22 | Lines 3 to 12? | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_hero_darius.xml | ||
16 | (Indentation, order.) | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_hero_xerxes.xml | ||
4 | What happened to this? The file doesn't show up in this differential. If it was simply renamed, do it properly, to preserve file history: | |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/spart_hero_agis.xml | ||
6–8 | Agis had twice as much health because it had no aura. Now it has one, it no longer needs double health. |
Why is background text just shoved out? Might as well throw random buffs everywhere since we don't shine any light on the reason.
Why is background text just shoved out?
Other auras don't have this either and for consistency it's important to adhere to the style guide. Moreover, the longer a text is, the more time it takes for people to process it. Because the purpose of tooltips is to convey information at a glance, it's best to be both precise and concise. Besides, shorter strings are less work to maintain, also for translators.
Might as well throw random buffs everywhere since we don't shine any light on the reason.
The reasoning behind changes belongs in the differential discussions (i.e. here), which people can always retrieve via the svn revision history, therefore all information is preserved.
Don't forget the final new lines in some of the files;
It would nice to have the equivalent of history tags in identity in the details pane of auras, techs and whatever.
Technology files have both a description (for flavour text) and a tooltip (for the actual modifications), but auras work differently.
I think the point was not the loss of context to developers, but to the user. One of the goals of the game is to make people interested in history/"teach" them about it.
While I, to some extend, agree with tooltips being concise, I think the point of learning more about the past whilst playing is not to be ignored.
That would be ideal indeed. Casual players could take their time to read them while competitive players can quickly see what an aura does.
I think the point was not the loss of context to developers, but to the user. One of the goals of the game is to make people interested in history/"teach" them about it.
While I, to some extend, agree with tooltips being concise, I think the point of learning more about the past whilst playing is not to be ignored.
If it really teaches something meaningful about history, then yes. However, strings such as
Clad in an overkill of heavy armor, Armored War Elephants were a terror to behold, a rampaging bulk of steel and spikes.
or
A stalwart warrior any Spartan would be proud to follow into battle.
I consider mere peacockery, hence my request not to introduce such filler text.
It would nice to have the equivalent of history tags in identity in the details pane of auras, techs and whatever.
That would be ideal indeed. Casual players could take their time to read them while competitive players can quickly see what an aura does.
It is possible to insert separate "history": lines in the aura files, that wouldn't harm, though they aren't displayed at the moment; a future patch could address that.
Another alternative is putting the string inside the <Identity/History> node in the templates that have the aura, which is displayed in game. History strings were purged in D297/rP19960, though, and have not been reintroduced since.
I think they were purged because some of them were hugely wrong @Itms might know more.
(The ticket states they were removed to save a lot of ad hoc work for translators prior to A20.)
Yes, but the problem is that there are (much) more heroes than possible aura ideas it sounds like. The problem with that one aura that got removed is that it was not historically accurate.
Thanks, yeah, training time and attack rate bonuses seem underused in vanilla, maybe some original bonuses could come out of this.
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/mace_hero_alexander_1.json | ||
---|---|---|
3 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | I left it at 45 as this bonus is approximately equivalent to the typical +20% attack from some other heroes, but this hero has another aura. But the more restricted affected classes might indeed justify going to 60, I will maybe change for next patch. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/maur_hero_chandragupta_1.json | ||
6 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | I tested it and it makes the buildings actually recovering their capture points, in range of the hero aura |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/pers_hero_xerxes.xml | ||
4 | Did that work ? |
attack rate bonuses
Those are fundamentally equivalent to attack damage bonuses (damage per second = attack damage / attack time).
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/mace_hero_alexander_1.json | ||
---|---|---|
3 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | One has to keep in mind the area equals pi times the radius square. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/maur_hero_chandragupta_1.json | ||
6 ↗ | (On Diff #12375) | That's because structures (see template_structure.xml) have both a <TerritoryDecay/DecayRate> (of 20) and a <Capturable/RegenRate> (of 0.5). The former is the rate capture points are lost when unconnected to a territory root; the latter the rate at which entities recover towards their owner. TD/DR usually dwarfs C/RR, but if TD/DR becomes 1% or 0, the effect of C/RR becomes noticeable. |
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/units/heroes/pers_hero_xerxes_2.json | ||
8 ↗ | (On Diff #12458) | Again, stone ought to be before metal. |
Also, I don't really understand the choice of Chandragupta auras; e.g. an elephant bonus would make more sense.
For determining appropiate range values, this table might be helpful:
range → area ; normalized 5 → 79 ; 0.016 10 → 314 ; 0.063 15 → 707 ; 0.141 20 → 1257 ; 0.25 25 → 1963 ; 0.391 30 → 2827 ; 0.563 35 → 3848 ; 0.766 40 → 5027 ; 1 45 → 6362 ; 1.266 50 → 7854 ; 1.563 55 → 9503 ; 1.891 60 → 11310 ; 2.25 65 → 13273 ; 2.641 70 → 15394 ; 3.063 75 → 17671 ; 3.516 80 → 20106 ; 4 85 → 22698 ; 4.516 90 → 25447 ; 5.063 95 → 28353 ; 5.641 100 → 31416 ; 6.25
[EDIT] Going from e.g. 25 to 20 means a 36% reduction (0.25 / 0.391), from 25 to 30 a 44% increase (0.563 / 0.391); and 30 means an area 2.5× as large as 20.