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[gameplay] change phase requirements
AbandonedPublic

Authored by Nescio on Dec 23 2019, 3:32 PM.

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Summary

This patch changes the requirements of the phase technologies:

  • Town phase from five village structures to one corral, farmstead, house, and storehouse.
  • City phase from four town structures to one blacksmith, market, and temple.

As a consequence building towers or military structures no longer brings you closer to the next, which means there is now a greater differentiation between early strategies (e.g. neglecting defences and military to rush to city phase, or train more units instead).
The petra AI advances to the phases without difficulty (which is a relief).

I'm not entirely sure about the correct amount of indentation (@elexis?).

Test Plan

Apply the patch, play-test a couple of games, agree this is an improvement.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Dec 23 2019, 3:32 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/878/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1394/display/redirect

Angen added a subscriber: Angen.Jan 16 2020, 9:35 AM

I am not sure that forcing to build corral is good idea, maybe add house. Player should have some freedom when it comes to choosing how he wants to gather food. This way that would mean wasted resources if player does not plan to train animals. (just my point of view)

The corral is just a phase requirement, you don't have to train cattle for food, just like building a temple for the city phase doesn't force you to train healers. Also, two cavalry technologies are researched at the corral.
The problem with houses is that they cost 75 wood for civs with small houses (brit, gaul, iber, maur) and 150 wood for civs with large houses (everyone else). The town phase requirements as proposed cost 375 or 450 wood; swapping the corral for a second house results into 350 or 500 wood, increasing the difference. (Without this patch it's 375 or 500 wood.)
Speaking of which, the ptol village structures don't cost resources, so perhaps there ought to be a more expensive phase_town_ptol.json to compensate?

Stan added a subscriber: Stan.Jan 16 2020, 2:44 PM

I think the idea was more to add a cost for those ptol houses.

Angen added a comment.Jan 16 2020, 3:16 PM

maybe it would be worth to take a look how much time and res it would cost ptol to reach next phase compared to some civ with most expensive required buildings with taking time to gather needed resources into account.

In AI vs AI games ptol doesn't perform noticeably better than other civs, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Stan added a comment.Jan 16 2020, 3:43 PM

In MP though I believe it's one of the most OP civs.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 11082.Jan 17 2020, 9:38 PM

"all": on a new line

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/1079/display/redirect

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1597/display/redirect

Disagree both with reducing the amount of structures necessary to be built (the phases are usually eco-rushed through quite quickly) and with forcing the player to build certain structures.

greater differentiation between early strategies

But the patch is doing the opposite of that and forcing the player to build A B C and D instead of making it his choice which direction to go.

greater differentiation between early strategies

But the patch is doing the opposite of that and forcing the player to build A B C and D instead of making it his choice which direction to go.

Right now it doesn't matter what you build, all structures count towards the phase requirements. With this patch players will have to choose: do I build what I want (e.g. several houses to train more women) first or do I prioritize the phase requirements instead?

Disagree both with reducing the amount of structures necessary to be built (the phases are usually eco-rushed through quite quickly)

corral + farmstead + house + storehouse = 375 or 450 wood
5 small houses = 375 wood or 5 storehouses = 500 wood
blacksmith + market + temple = 500 wood + 300 stone
4 large towers = 400 wood + 400 stone

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/175/display/redirect

Town phase from five village structures to one corral, farmstead, house, and storehouse.

I dislike forcing players to make a corral to click up to Phase 2 just for the sake of differentiation. It feels a bit too artificial. Corrals currently are a very rarely used building due to taking much longer to set up and also requiring constant attention, but if a player does plan to use corrals as the main source of food income they will start setting them up early due to how long it takes to get them going. So it doesn't feel like anything gets differentiated for the start, just a mild annoyance is added, due to a building that isn't made in 99% of multiplayer matches being required to click up.

City phase from four town structures to one blacksmith, market, and temple.

As a consequence building towers or military structures no longer brings you closer to the next, which means there is now a greater differentiation between early strategies (e.g. neglecting defences and military to rush to city phase, or train more units instead).

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't feel like it adds any differentiation, just hinders it. In a 1v1 if I'm going aggressive and my opponent uses towers for defense and then clicks up to City phase with just those towers, I know that I can severely hurt my enemy by just idling any single one of his resources since he won't be able to buy it to, for example, continue unit production, build a fort or get economy upgrades.
I feel like forcing players to have 3 specific buildings to click up will only mean that there will be much less differentiation between the buildings and the situations the players arrive to City phase in due to lacking those buildings.

Nescio abandoned this revision.Jan 26 2020, 6:44 PM
Nescio removed a reviewer: Restricted Owners Package.

The consensus is clearly against.