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change pers_cavalry_archer_* actor
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Authored by Nescio on Jan 3 2020, 6:49 PM.

Details

Reviewers
Stan
Group Reviewers
Restricted Owners Package(Owns No Changed Paths)
Commits
rP23553: Move Persian cavalry to the persian folder.
Summary

The Persians were famed and feared for the horse archers they fielded. In 0 A.D., the Persians can train several cavalry types, but not horse archers: pers_cavalry_archer_* is actually a chariot.
The Persians did use scythed chariots, but only in small numbers; e.g. at the battle of Cunaxa (401 BC), Cyrus had 1600 horsemen and 20 chariots (i.e. 80:1) and Artaxerxes 6000 horsemen and 150 chariots (i.e. 40:1). Therefore let's keep it for a champion unit, like the other chariots in game (brit, maur, sele).

This patch:

  • change the (citizen) pers_cavalry_archer_* <Actor> and <Icon> to the Seleucid horse archer's, instead of the Persian chariot's
  • change its generic and specific name to Parthian Horse Archer (Asabāra Parθava)
  • create a new pers_chariot.xml for the Babylonian Scythed Chariot (Raθa Bābiruviya), which uses the elite chariot <Actor> and <Icon>

The former is a cosmetic change, the latter is not trainable at any Persian structure (could be done in a future patch), therefore this patch does not alter gameplay balance.

  • [EDIT]: moves the cavalry archer actors from the seleucids into the persians folder
Test Plan

Check for mistakes and omissions.

Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
Lint
Automatic diff as part of commit; lint not applicable.
Unit
Automatic diff as part of commit; unit tests not applicable.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Jan 3 2020, 6:49 PM
Nescio updated this revision to Diff 10861.Jan 3 2020, 6:52 PM

corrected champion footprint (it's a quadriga)

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 6:53 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1452/display/redirect

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 10862.Jan 3 2020, 6:54 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 6:57 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1453/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:01 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1454/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:08 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/934/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:11 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/935/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:12 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/936/display/redirect

Nescio added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:36 PM

Also, is it possible to opt-out of Vulcan notifications?

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:38 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/30/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:43 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/31/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Jan 3 2020, 7:47 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/32/display/redirect

Stan added a comment.Sat, Feb 29, 4:37 PM

Is it historically correct to use seleucid actors for persians or are those placeholders?

Nescio added a comment.Sun, Mar 1, 1:09 PM
In D2530#111167, @Stan wrote:

Is it historically correct to use seleucid actors for persians or are those placeholders?

Yes, in this case it's certainly correct. The unit in question is the Dahae horse archer. The Dahae were a confederacy of three related nomadic tribes (Parni, Pissuri, Xanthii), living in what is now Turkmenistan, to the north of Hyrcania and Parthia proper, which was part of the Achaemenid Persian Empire from an early stage. Darius III fielded large numbers of them at the Battle of Gaugamela, and after he was killed, Alexander III incorporated Dahae horse archers in his army.
In 247 BC, Arsaces became the leader of the Parni. In 245 BC, the Parthian satrap Andragoras revolted against the Seleucids. In 238, Arsaces invaded and conquered Parthia, founding the Arsacid or Parthian Empire.
Despite not controlling the area, the Seleucids occassionally used Dahae mercenaries, e.g. at the Battle of Magnesia.

The units in question look very Persian, and rightly so:


Maybe a future patch should move those actors from the seleucids into the persians folder.

Stan added a comment.Sat, Mar 7, 3:56 PM

Last question: Does this mean Persian can train champion chariots in fortresses that allow that? (Because of the creation of the new actor)

Last question: Does this mean Persian can train champion chariots in fortresses that allow that? (Because of the creation of the new actor)

Good point! The answer is yes, they can be trained at maur and sele fortresses, but not at any structure the Persians can build. Giving the template a non-standard name (e.g. pers_chariot.xml or pers_champion_chariot_archer.xml) would prevent that.

Stan added a comment.Sun, Mar 8, 11:25 AM

Can you do so? Not sure about the name but I guess one will have to be careful when adding new templates :)

Can you do so? Not sure about the name but I guess one will have to be careful when adding new templates :)

pers_chariot.xml?
Also, any objections to moving the actors from the seleucids to the persians folder?

Stan added a comment.Sun, Mar 8, 11:51 AM

If they are persians they should be in the persians folder. I guess someone has to fix Delenda Est now.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 11468.Sun, Mar 8, 11:58 AM
Owners added subscribers: Restricted Owners Package, Restricted Owners Package.Sun, Mar 8, 11:58 AM
Nescio added inline comments.Sun, Mar 8, 12:00 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/art/actors/units/persians/cavalry_archer_b_r.xml
8–13 ↗(On Diff #11468)

Clearly Persian.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1841/display/redirect

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Sun, Mar 8, 12:07 PM
Nescio removed a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Thu, Mar 26, 10:44 AM

@Stan?

(pers_chariot.xml is untrainable, hence this patch does not affect gameplay balance. Horse archer actors are moved to the persians folder, similar to D2636.)

Stan added a comment.Thu, Mar 26, 10:57 AM

@Stan?
(pers_chariot.xml is untrainable, hence this patch does not affect gameplay balance. Horse archer actors are moved to the persians folder, similar to D2636.)

It does, because they can recruit it in the briton fortresses no?

No. That was the case in the initial version, but not anymore (patch was updated on 8 March): {civ}_champion_chariot.xml can be recruited at maur and sele fortresses, but not {civ}_chariot.xml.

Stan accepted this revision.Fri, Mar 27, 9:26 AM

I agree with moving persians to the persian folders, I guess if they were indeed using more horse archers than chariots then they should use that, I agree about the icon change, the specific name change, and the chariot currently cannot be trained, and will be up to the balancers to include or not.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Fri, Mar 27, 9:26 AM
This revision was landed with ongoing or failed builds.Fri, Mar 27, 9:30 AM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Fri, Mar 27, 9:30 AM

Thank you!

the chariot currently cannot be trained, and will be up to the balancers to include or not.

D2683

Is there another differential for the Seleucid Cavalry Javelinist? It's also a Persian unit.

I know I am late to the game, but I agree with making the Scythe Chariot into a champion for the Persians. I already did this over a year ago for the Persians in Delenda Est. What I do in DE, and what I propose for EA, is to make the chariot have dedicated promotion techs in the Fortress to upgrade them from light, to medium, to heavy chariots. See DE for an example of this.

Stan added a comment.Fri, Mar 27, 7:16 PM

Thanks for coming to the party, it is very much appreciated :)

Is there another differential for the Seleucid Cavalry Javelinist? It's also a Persian unit.

Is it? It looks like ordinary Greek cavalry. Maybe you're confused with something else?

I know I am late to the game, but I agree with making the Scythe Chariot into a champion for the Persians. I already did this over a year ago for the Persians in Delenda Est.

This patch already changed it into a champion; it's just not trainable yet, because that would be a gameplay balance change, but there is a patch available for that. And yeah, I already did that in my 0abc mod long ago.
Feel free to propose patches for uncontroversial improvements you made in Delenda Est (e.g. art corrections), so they can be incorporated into the public folder. That'll make your mod smaller to download and easier to maintain in the long run; besides, the default game and other mods can also benefit.

Ideally the Persian scythed chariot actor (and heroes) ought to be redesigned, to match the Xenophon's eyewitness description.