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[gameplay] deprecate rotary mill, introduce special gaul farming technology
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Authored by Nescio on Mar 25 2020, 7:10 PM.

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Reviewers
borg-
scythetwirler
Group Reviewers
Restricted Owners Package(Owns No Changed Paths)
Commits
rP23803: Deprecate rotary mill, and instead introduce a special technology (town phase…
Summary

As pointed out by @Genava55 on the forums, 0 A.D.'s rotary mill is historically problematic. This patch therefore deprecates the structure, and instead introduces a special technology (town phase, workers +15% grain gather rate) for the Gauls, to reflect the fact they invented a harvesting machine in the Iron Age.

See also D2669.

Test Plan

Check for mistakes, agree this is an improvement.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Mar 25 2020, 7:10 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Mar 25 2020, 7:10 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/1906/display/redirect

Nescio added inline comments.Mar 25 2020, 7:18 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/technologies/gather_farming_harvester.json
5

About the cost of two rotary mills.

21

The rotary mill aura granted a 25% increase, but is local and temporary (only works as long as the structure isn't captured or destroyed).
The technology effect is global and permanent, hence the lower 10%.

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio added subscribers: borg-, ValihrAnt.
borg- added a comment.EditedJun 3 2020, 2:59 PM

If it is historically a problem, then I must agree with @Genava55.
That it is unique tech to Gaul civilization, the gain could be greater, perhaps 15%? The cost seems good to 15%.

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Jun 3 2020, 8:31 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jun 3 2020, 8:34 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2307/display/redirect

borg- accepted this revision.Jun 4 2020, 4:11 AM

Ok, im fine with 15%.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Jun 4 2020, 4:11 AM
wraitii added a subscriber: wraitii.Jun 4 2020, 8:57 AM

Is there any way to reuse the structure? It's a bit of a shame to let some differentiation away imo. A tech just isn't as fun as a building, and doesn't have quite the same gameplay impact since a building can be destroyed.

If I understand correctly, the issue is the donkey?

Nescio added a comment.Jun 4 2020, 9:36 AM

Donkeys were only introduced into Gaul and Britain in Roman times, however, that's not the only problem: rotary mills were not uniquely Celtic, as 0 A.D. suggests. It may have been an African invention, which Carthage introduced to Sicily and Southern Spain, and subsequently the Romans spread to Italy and beyond. So again, something more appropiate for Roman Gaul.

badosu added a subscriber: badosu.Jun 13 2020, 4:31 PM

I like that it has a considerable cost, in both wood and metal, also that it may help transition from a fanatic rush to farms, since you are gathering mostly wood and metal at that stage.

The fact that it has a considerable increase in cost also compensates for the ability to train at phase 1, overall I agree with this change.

The fact that it has a considerable increase in cost also compensates for the ability to train at phase 1, overall I agree with this change.

Actually the technology requires the town phase (as is the case for the rotary mill).

scythetwirler accepted this revision.Thu, Jun 18, 7:19 PM
Angen added a subscriber: Angen.Wed, Jul 1, 11:53 AM

From the sixth century BC ...
It was from their Iberian neighbours that in the fourth century they learned the technology for turning pottery on the wheel and for making rotary querns to mill their grain. A century later a Celtiberian script had been developed

The Ancient Celts (Barry Cunliffe) page 165

Nescio added a comment.Wed, Jul 1, 1:10 PM

The Ancient Celts (Barry Cunliffe) page 165

Thanks! Also page 79:

By the fourth century the Celtiberians were using rotary querns and the potter’s wheel.

However, like the pottery wheel, a quern is a simple hand tool, not the large animal-driven rotary mill 0 A.D. has. Besides, Celtiberians are not exactly the same as Gauls, and it was clearly not a Celtic invention (? → Phoenicians → Carthaginians → Iberians → Celtiberians).

Angen added a comment.Wed, Jul 1, 4:29 PM

oh, my bad :)

badosu added a comment.Thu, Jul 2, 8:27 AM

Actually the technology requires the town phase (as is the case for the rotary mill).

Was this changed in a24? IIRC rotary mill is City Phase in a23

Nescio added a comment.Thu, Jul 2, 1:37 PM

Was this changed in a24? IIRC rotary mill is City Phase in a23

No, it wasn't, you're right, the rotary mill has a city phase requirement, my mistake.

Stan added a subscriber: Stan.Sat, Jul 4, 1:11 PM

This is a bit heart breaking as it was my first animated model, but history seems to have spoken.

Stan updated this revision to Diff 12547.Sat, Jul 4, 3:59 PM

Rebase.

Vulcan added a comment.Sat, Jul 4, 4:05 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2579/display/redirect

Stan added a comment.Sat, Jul 4, 4:12 PM

Can you close this, I forgot to reference the commit :/

Nescio closed this revision.Sat, Jul 4, 4:28 PM