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improve animal footprints
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Authored by Nescio on May 3 2020, 12:37 PM.

Details

Reviewers
wraitii
genava55
Group Reviewers
Restricted Owners Package(Owns No Changed Paths)
Commits
rP23930: Streamline animal footprints.
Summary

This patch revisits the footprints of all animal templates.

  • Because all animals have different actors, footprints should be defined in the specific files (gaia/fauna_*), not in the shared templates (template_unit_fauna_*).
  • Used only values in steps of 0.5; granular steps are not really meaningful, as discussed with @fatherbushido on the forums.
  • Inserted <StatusBars/HeightOffset> nodes in the specific templates (value is equal to <Footprint/Height> + 1).
  • The crocodile currently has a 1:2 footprint, which works for mammals, however for this reptile it means its head and tail are outside; therefore this patch lengthens it to a 1:4 ratio, like the shark.
  • The donkey no longer has gaia/fauna_horse.xml as its parent.

See also D2496, D2640, #3786.

Test Plan
  • Download this test map:


  • Launch Atlas, open the fauna map, and view the current animal footprints.
  • Apply this patch, repeat previous step.
  • Verify the new footprints indeed look better.
  • Check for mistakes, omissions, and possible improvements.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.May 3 2020, 12:37 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.May 3 2020, 12:37 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2070/display/redirect

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)May 3 2020, 12:54 PM
elexis edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)May 8 2020, 7:30 PM
Nescio added a comment.May 8 2020, 7:59 PM

#3786

Apparently the boar did have an oblong footprint at some point in the past (rP18014), but that was removed about a year later (rP19095, which contains many unrelated changes). Also the peacock.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 11903.May 17 2020, 3:07 PM
Nescio retitled this revision from adjust boar and hippopotamus footprints to adjust a few animal footprints.
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio added a subscriber: Palaxin.

peacock, crocodile

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2147/display/redirect

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)May 17 2020, 5:09 PM

Great to see my work from #3786 continued :)

In rP19723 rabbit footprint had been changed to 2 x 1.2, which is not 2:1 ratio anymore, maybe you could address that as well.
There might have been more changes and added animals in the last 3 years, did you check them all?

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 11960.May 21 2020, 7:39 PM
  • Adjust rabbit footprint, as requested by @Palaxin.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/771/display/redirect

There might have been more changes and added animals in the last 3 years, did you check them all?

What I did is go through the current version of all fauna templates; 0 A.D. does not have that many animals. I didn't go through the svn file history of every file; only in the case when something seemed wrong (e.g. boar, peacock).

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2187/display/redirect

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 11979.May 22 2020, 7:43 PM
  • piglet

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2204/display/redirect

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)May 22 2020, 7:46 PM
Nescio planned changes to this revision.May 29 2020, 11:49 AM

All animal footprint should probably be rechecked individually in Atlas.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12071.May 31 2020, 5:11 PM
Nescio retitled this revision from adjust a few animal footprints to improve animal footprints.
Nescio edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio added a subscriber: fatherbushido.
  • Because all animals have different actors, footprints should be defined in the specific files (gaia/fauna_*), not in the shared templates (template_unit_fauna_*).
  • Inserted <StatusBars/HeightOffset> nodes in the specific templates (value is equal to <Footprint/Height> + 1).
  • Reviewed and adjusted the footprint dimensions of all animals.
  • Used only values in steps of 0.5; granular steps are not really meaningful, as discussed with @fatherbushido on the forums.
  • fauna_donkey no longer has fauna_horse as its parent.
  • fauna_walrus got a circular footprint.

To do: figure out appropiate footprint heights (and corresponding status bar height offsets).

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2273/display/redirect

Nescio edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)May 31 2020, 5:16 PM
Nescio edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/875/display/redirect

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12096.Jun 1 2020, 7:54 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • <Footprint/Height> and <StatusBar/HeightOffset>
Vulcan added a comment.Jun 1 2020, 7:55 PM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2289/display/redirect

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12806.Jul 20 2020, 12:24 PM
  • exclude template_unit_dog.xml (to D2496)

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2719/display/redirect

wraitii added a subscriber: wraitii.Aug 3 2020, 3:30 PM

These look fine overall.

I think I'd prefer if the very small animals had bigger footprints, for balance reasons. As it stands, archers have basically no chance to hit them. Instead of "w1d2" I'd go with "w2d3".

Nescio added a comment.Aug 3 2020, 4:06 PM

I think I'd prefer if the very small animals had bigger footprints, for balance reasons.

Which one(s) specifically? The smallest is 1.0×2.0 (chicken, fox, peacock, piglet, rabbit), and is about the same as they are right now. Moreover, the chicken, peacock, and piglet are Domestic (i.e. Slaughter rather than Ranged attack applies), the rabbit's was increased in D562/rP19723, and the fox is unchanged.

Nescio added a comment.Aug 3 2020, 4:18 PM

Moreover, the effect of spread is particularly noticeable at maximum range; at short or medium range archers should have no difficulty hitting their targets, then they're actually more precise than slingers or javelineers (3.0 vs 3.5 vs 4.0 spread), so just move them closer.

Which one(s) specifically? The smallest is 1.0×2.0 (chicken, fox, peacock, piglet, rabbit), and is about the same as they are right now. Moreover, the chicken, peacock, and piglet are Domestic (i.e. Slaughter rather than Ranged attack applies), the rabbit's was increased in D562/rP19723, and the fox is unchanged.

Mh. I guess the "click box" isn't determined by the footprint, so this perhaps only really applies to the fox, which is a tad bigger anyways?

Nescio added a comment.Aug 3 2020, 4:32 PM

But foxes are visibly much smaller than dogs, gazells, goats, sheep, and wolves, which form the next step (1.5×3.0):

But foxes are visibly much smaller than dogs, gazells, goats, sheep, and wolves, which form the next step (1.5×3.0):

I'd argue they are also visibly much larger than rabbits (which are, by the way, absolutely huge in game).


I don't want to discuss this forever though, so I guess my main complaint is that we probably should make the fox larger since it looks a bit puny right now, even if that's not 100% realistic.

Nescio added a comment.Aug 3 2020, 5:33 PM

I'd argue they are also visibly much larger than rabbits (which are, by the way, absolutely huge in game).

According to Wikipedia:

  • rabbits are up to 40 cm in length
  • red foxes are the largest foxes in the world, adults are up to 45-90 cm in length, with tails of 30-55 cm
  • wolves are up to 105-160 cm in length, with tails of 30-50 cm

So the average fox would be actually closer in size to rabbits than wolves.

I don't want to discuss this forever though, so I guess my main complaint is that we probably should make the fox larger since it looks a bit puny right now, even if that's not 100% realistic.

Sorry, but I really disagree. The reasons why I think the fox footprint is fine and should not be increased (from 1.0×2.0) to the same size as the wolf (1.5×3.0) are:

  • 1.0×2.0 is also the footprint the fox currently has without this patch.
  • Killing foxes in game is not really an issue right now.
  • Even the largest foxes are a lot smaller than wolves in reality.
  • 0 A.D.'s foxes are visibly a lot smaller than wolves.
  • Foxes in game have a lot less health and attack damage than wolves.
  • If foxes get a larger footprint, then all animals ought to get a larger footprint.
  • It really looks bad:
wraitii accepted this revision.Aug 3 2020, 6:36 PM

[sizes]

I feel like this proves my point more than yours: foxes are twice as large as rabbits.

Sorry, but I really disagree. The reasons why I think the fox footprint is fine and should not be increased (from 1.0×2.0) to the same size as the wolf (1.5×3.0) are:

I don't necessarily suggest the same size as a wolf. I think larger than the rabbit isn't idiotic.
I also don't think it looks that bad.

That being said, I don't think this warrants further discussion.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Aug 3 2020, 6:36 PM
Nescio added a comment.Aug 3 2020, 6:49 PM

I feel like this proves my point more than yours: foxes are twice as large as rabbits.

... and wolves are twice as large as foxes.
Since a smaller footprint for rabbits isn't acceptable, increasing the fox's footprint would mean also increasing the wolf's and those of practically all other animals, meaning this patch would have to be completely redone (and D2496 too).

That being said, I don't think this warrants further discussion.

I apologize for discussing it ad nauseam. If it were just some stat (e.g. attack damage), I wouldn't be so insisting, but footprints are rather visible, and I highly value consistency.

genava55 accepted this revision.Aug 4 2020, 10:00 AM

There are two ways to do it:

  • either developing a scientifically accurate way to represent every animal size proportionally with their footprint => painful as hell and time wasting, probably will cause issue with some models because of coding constraints
  • either choosing the footprint with preferential grouping in consideration with gameplay needs.

I choose the second option. I accept the current proposal.

This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Nescio added a comment.Aug 4 2020, 3:50 PM

Many thanks! Seriously, you just made my day!

borg- added a subscriber: borg-.Aug 4 2020, 3:55 PM

Many thanks! Seriously, you just made my day!

Gj @Nescio