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[gameplay] reduce palisade health and repair time ratio
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Authored by Nescio on Jun 8 2020, 10:36 AM.

Details

Reviewers
borg-
Lionkanzen
wraitii
Group Reviewers
Restricted Owners Package(Owns No Changed Paths)
Commits
rP23889: Reduce palisade health and repair ratio.
Summary

This patch reduces palisade segment health by 20%, and palisade “tower” health by c. 7%. As a consequence, short:medium:gate:long:tower now have a 2:4:5:6:7 (siege and city walls have 2:4:5:6:8) and the health per wall length is now 50 for palisade segments. Furthermore, it makes the costs of palisade towers proportional to their health (cf. D2611/rP23713).

[EDIT] The palisade's inflated <Repairable/RepairTimeRatio> is also removed. As the name suggests, this is the ratio between build time and repair time; template_structure.xml has a value of 2, which means structures can be repaired twice as fast as they are built. Palisades are already built quickly, there is no strong reason why they should be repaired disproportionately faster.

Other palisade or wall patches include D2505, D2507, D2687, D2741, D2760, D2769, D2783.

Test Plan

Check for mistakes and omissions, agree this is an improvement.

Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
Lint
Automatic diff as part of commit; lint not applicable.
Unit
Automatic diff as part of commit; unit tests not applicable.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Jun 8 2020, 10:36 AM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Jun 8 2020, 10:36 AM
Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12218.Jun 8 2020, 10:49 AM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • make palisade tower cost proportional to health

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2372/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2374/display/redirect

borg- added a subscriber: borg-.EditedJun 8 2020, 6:00 PM

I agree with the changes in the palisades, especially if it is accepted that it can be build in neutral and enemy territory. Im not sure but I already think that the stone walls are ok. Adding more hit points to some "turtle" maps may make a "impossible" and bored game.

Nescio added a comment.Jun 8 2020, 8:58 PM

I agree with the changes in the palisades, especially if it is accepted that it can be build in neutral and enemy territory. Im not sure but I already think that the stone walls are ok.

The idea is to widen the gap between palisades (cheap and weak) and city walls (expensive and powerful) further. Since they have twice the health per cost, I'm also contemplating doubling the cost and build time of city walls (but not of palisades), though I guess that would belong in a future patch.

borg- added a comment.EditedJun 9 2020, 2:20 PM

I agree with the changes in the palisades, especially if it is accepted that it can be build in neutral and enemy territory. Im not sure but I already think that the stone walls are ok.

The idea is to widen the gap between palisades (cheap and weak) and city walls (expensive and powerful) further. Since they have twice the health per cost, I'm also contemplating doubling the cost and build time of city walls (but not of palisades), though I guess that would belong in a future patch.

Well then we can just lower the health and build time of the palisades a little more (as discussed in D2507) without having to change the stone walls. maybe something like 30%?

In D2803#119515, @borg- wrote:

Well then we can just lower the health and build time of the palisades a little more (as discussed in D2507) without having to change the stone walls. maybe something like 30%?

The wall changes can be split off into a separate patch, focussing this one on palisades only. A reduction of more than 20% is probably too severe, though, so leave the proposed values as is. If palisades turn out to be unsatisfactory later (too weak or too strong), they can be adjusted again in a future patch.

(as discussed in D2507)

Actually:

Palisades should be weaken--not buffed.

agree

Personally I don't think palissades should be nerfed. They feel not worth it at the beginning of the game where say, you would want them to surround your farms in order to avoid cavalry raids there. They are too expensive and slow to build for that task.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12235.Jun 9 2020, 7:19 PM
Nescio retitled this revision from [gameplay] tweak palisade and wall health to [gameplay] tweak palisade health.
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • palisades only
Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12236.Jun 9 2020, 7:23 PM
Nescio retitled this revision from [gameplay] tweak palisade health to [gameplay] reduce palisade health and repair time ratio.
  • remove inflated repair time ratio
Vulcan added a comment.Jun 9 2020, 7:24 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2385/display/redirect

Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Jun 9 2020, 7:28 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jun 9 2020, 7:28 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2386/display/redirect

borg- accepted this revision.Jun 10 2020, 12:00 AM

It looks good. I agree with the changes.

A change that has been expected by some players for some time and it seems to be acceptable to other good players too.

I don't think it's ideal yet, I hope to see palisades that are a little weaker, cheaper and faster to build (my opnion). However, we are already taking a good step here.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Jun 10 2020, 12:00 AM
Lionkanzen added a reviewer: Lionkanzen.
Lionkanzen added a subscriber: Lionkanzen.

Palisades needs more love. Some upgrades and special tech , i love cover neutral pass with those. Are very useful in open map. And works well to make some siege to protect siege engines.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12243.Jun 10 2020, 12:01 PM
  • forgot palisade tower loot

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2392/display/redirect

wraitii accepted this revision.Jul 20 2020, 4:54 PM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.