Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2511/display/redirect

How is this fundamentally different from e.g. line 52 or 199? Or the way female citizens are presented in game (i.e. cheap, weak, expendable workers)?
I don't really care about this particular quote, but once you start censoring ancient authors based on modern views of political correctness, you enter a slippery slope.

In D2832#121349, @Nescio wrote:

How is this fundamentally different from e.g. line 52 or 199? Or the way female citizens are presented in game (i.e. cheap, weak, expendable workers)?
I don't really care about this particular quote, but once you start censoring ancient authors based on modern views of political correctness, you enter a slippery slope.

First of all: It's not really censoring. (I mean we are already selecting quotes, so why especially this one?) (and "political correctness" is btw a term introduced by far rights in an attempt to try to change the framing of a debate)
Second: We show these quotes because we think they are important quotes from important people of ancient times. In this case I don't see what this should tell us about Pericles.
Third: "Or the way female citizens are presented in game (i.e. cheap, weak, expendable workers)?" I also find that a bit "worrying" but I have no real solution for that gameplay-wise nor any real knowledge about the "real" position of women in this times.
Fourth: "How is this fundamentally different from e.g. line 52 or 199?" I wasn't really sure about those. But at least they aren't totally negative about women. If you think we also should remove them, I have no problem with that.

(and "political correctness" is btw a term introduced by far rights in an attempt to try to change the framing of a debate)

Actually it isn't: whilst right wing politicians (and people) are increasingly using it to label what they disagree with, the phrase is much older (a quick search shows it was already used by the United States Supreme Court in 1793), and in the past had positive or neutral connotations. Allowing people to appropiate a phrase for their own ends, unopposed, is exactly what you shouldn't do if you disagree with them.

We show these quotes because we think they are important quotes from important people of ancient times.

Do we?

But at least they aren't totally negative about women.

Nor is line 138. To me 138 seems to be in the same vein as e.g. “a true gentleman’s name appears in newspapers only three times in his life: to announce his birth, marriage and death.” Not being talked about was generally a virtue.

any real knowledge about the "real" position of women in this times.

In Greek society women were kept indoors, being pregnant, caring for small children, preparing food, carding wool, spinning thread into yarn, weaving, sewing, etc.
In other cultures they had a somewhat more freedom, but universally women were considered inferior to men (as is still the case in most of the world nowadays).

The argument given over there on github:

Not a vital quote. The project can survive without it.

basically applies to all lines. Nor is the argument given in the summary convincing:

This is not really appropriate.

Again, I don't care particularly about this or any other string, but if it is to be removed, it ought to be removed for the right reasons.

What would be such reasons?

In D2832#121395, @Nescio wrote:

Nor is line 138. To me 138 seems to be in the same vein as e.g. “a true gentleman’s name appears in newspapers only three times in his life: to announce his birth, marriage and death.” Not being talked about was generally a virtue.

any real knowledge about the "real" position of women in this times.

Hmm didn't thought about it that way around. To me the quote just sounded like women should not matter.

For the record, here's the Greek + three old translations:

• http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Thuc.+2.45&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0199
• http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Thuc.+2.45&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0247
• http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Thuc.+2.45&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0105
• http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0200%3Abook%3D2%3Achapter%3D45

But one should really read the entire Funeral Oration (Thucydides 2.35–46).

I think what was meant by Not a vital quote is that we are developing a strategy game of combat and thus quotes that are not related to war are not useful.

Obviously as a person of my time I find these quotes problematic to share, as well as our gameplay (which would need this "phenotype" patch to propose a fix). I think ideally we would share them with a context, explaining how the ancient Greek society portrayed by Thucydides was misogynistic by ancient standards. But as a developer of "just" a strategy game I feel like it would be easier to just remove these quotes unrelated to the subject of the game. This is not censorship, this is just spending less time on merely cosmetic quotes.

Then again, why this line and not any others? Most of the quotes do not seem to be directly related to combat.

how the ancient Greek society portrayed by Thucydides was misogynistic by ancient standards.

No, society in antiquity is misogynistic by modern standards. That has nothing to do with Thucydides.

This quote is both sexist by modern standards, and not about combat (even loosely). That is all. If there are other quotes with those two issues, we could definitely add them to the diff.

Do you have any argument against removing this specific quote, apart from the potential slippery slope? You can warn us if we go too far in the future ?

(

misogynistic by ancient standards

I was referring to

In other cultures they had a somewhat more freedom

which is indeed not something Thucydides says, but you misunderstood by English sentence. It's not important at all.
)

This quote is both sexist by modern standards, and not about combat (even loosely). That is all.

So if something is blatantly misogynistic, yet loosely about combat, it would be perfectly fine?