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[gameplay] kush: tweak Amun temple, deprecate upgrade_rank_elite_healer.json technology
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Authored by Nescio on Sun, Jun 28, 12:46 PM.

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Summary

The Kushite "Divine Instruction" (upgrade_rank_elite_healer.json) technology is very expensive (500 stone for the structure that researches it, 500 food + 500 metal for the technology itself) and not very useful (few players actually train healers).
This patch deletes that technology, and instead makes elite healers trainable by default at the Amun temple, and lets Kushites start with an advanced healer on random maps.
[EDIT] This patch also makes the Amun temple somewhat stronger, to reflect its size (it's larger than some wonders) and its build limit of 1.

Test Plan

Agree this is an improvement.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Sun, Jun 28, 12:46 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Sun, Jun 28, 12:47 PM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2547/display/redirect

borg- added a subscriber: borg-.Sun, Jun 28, 6:44 PM

I like about can train healer elite without tech, but its seems op with current values.

What about increase cost of kush elite healer?

I dont sure about start with healer. I think others civs can be more realistic historically like ptolomeus.

I like about can train healer elite without tech,

Thanks!

but its seems op with current values.

You mean elite healers are too effective? Changing that seems something that belongs in D2792.

What about increase cost of kush elite healer?

Idem.

I dont sure about start with healer. I think others civs can be more realistic historically like ptolomeus.

What makes you think it would be more appropiate for e.g. the Ptolemies?

borg- added a comment.EditedMon, Jun 29, 1:29 PM

I dont sure about start with healer. I think others civs can be more realistic historically like ptolomeus.

What makes you think it would be more appropiate for e.g. the Ptolemies?

I am not a historian, but it seems to me that religiosity in cultures such as Egyptian and Greek seems to have been more influential for civilization, than the Kushites (I may be mistaken).

borg- added a comment.Mon, Jun 29, 1:34 PM

What about increase cost of kush elite healer?

Idem.

Only kushites could train elite healer at the moment, so wouldn't it be more appropriate to add a food value (based on loot increase) to just one template (kushite_elite_healer)?

Only kushites could train elite healer at the moment, so wouldn't it be more appropriate to add a food value (based on loot increase) to just one template (kushite_elite_healer)?

No: if another civ captures a temple of Amun, they can train their own elite healers, therefore it's necessary to do it for all healers, not just one template.

I am not a historian, but it seems to me that religiosity in cultures such as Egyptian and Greek seems to have been more influential for civilization, than the Kushites (I may be mistaken).

Again, I'm curious as to why you believe Egyptians and Greeks were more religious?
Anyway, the reason I think it's appropiate is not because of Kushite religiosity, but because of the political power the priesthood of Amun had (which is also the reason behind the existence of the Amun temple structure and this deprecated technology). Besides, it differentiates Kushites a bit; Britons start with a dog, Mauryas with an elephant, Kushites an healer.

borg- added a comment.Mon, Jun 29, 2:54 PM

No: if another civ captures a temple of Amun, they can train their own elite healers, therefore it's necessary to do it for all healers, not just one template.

Oh yes, you are right about that.

Again, I'm curious as to why you believe Egyptians and Greeks were more religious?

Perhaps because they are better known cultures. As i said, maybe i'm wrong.

Anyway, the reason I think it's appropiate is not because of Kushite religiosity, but because of the political power the priesthood of Amun had (which is also the reason behind the existence of the Amun temple structure and this deprecated technology). Besides, it differentiates Kushites a bit; Britons start with a dog, Mauryas with an elephant, Kushites an healer.

Yes, i really like that. My main focus on future patches is to make civilizations more different from each other. Maybe start with healer rank 1?

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12511.Tue, Jun 30, 10:36 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • tweak Amun temple
Nescio retitled this revision from [gameplay] deprecate upgrade_rank_elite_healer.json technology to [gameplay] kush: tweak Amun temple, deprecate upgrade_rank_elite_healer.json technology.Tue, Jun 30, 10:39 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2559/display/redirect

Nescio added inline comments.Tue, Jun 30, 10:45 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/structures/kush_shrine.xml
31

Actually we might as well disable the <ProductionQueue> entirely.

borg- added a comment.Thu, Jul 9, 1:30 AM

I am willing to accept this patch, in general it is very good. However starting with a healer with advance rank would be very powerful if used wel, rank 1 must be better.