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[gameplay] tweak outpost and remove techs
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Authored by borg- on Aug 5 2020, 3:34 AM.

Details

Reviewers
Nescio
wraitii
Group Reviewers
Restricted Owners Package(Owns No Changed Paths)
Balancing
Commits
rP24016: Debuff outpost and remove un-necessary technologies.
Summary

Some problems with outpost:

  • Much more health than a sentry tower (no make sense);
  • Rarely used;
  • When used, it is almost always for rush and not to gain map view (rush problem can be even greater if D2507 be accepted).
  • Bad, generic and useless techs;
  • Disproportionate high attack;

The purpose of the patch is to make it more recurrent in games mainly for its vision function. It is still possible to be used in the rush due to the lower cost/buildtime.

  • Remove techs.
  • Decrease health to 400 (a little less than sentry);
  • Decrease wood cost from 80 to 60 and correct loot;
  • Decrease build time from 40 to 30;
  • Decrease min range from 13 to 10 and max range from 55 to 50;
  • Decrease attack from 16 to 9;
  • ADD elevation bonus 8 (height slightly lower than sentry);
  • Increase hack armor from 5 to 10;
  • Increase garrison capacity from 1 to 2 (makes the rush still possible and a little more difficult to convert);
  • Increase vision range from 80 to 100.
Test Plan

Check mistakes.

Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
Lint
Automatic diff as part of commit; lint not applicable.
Unit
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Event Timeline

borg- requested review of this revision.Aug 5 2020, 3:34 AM
borg- created this revision.
Nescio added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 4:33 PM

To be honest, I never build outposts.

Much more health than a sentry tower (no make sense);

To be fair, sentry towers have 15 more hack armour (equivalent to c. 5× health) and 5 more pierce armour (about +70% health).

Decay tech is totally useless;

I have no objections to deprecating it, but if you do, delete it properly (svn rm tower_decay.json) and adjust the <TerritoryDecay/DecayRate> value accordingly.

Tech gives +5 hack armor.

Why not give them the hack armour increase by default and skip introducing that very specific technology?
I'd also favour excluding outposts from the tower_vision.json technology and simply disable their production queue, i.e. <ProductionQueue disable=""/>.

borg- added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 5:46 PM

It may be interesting to keep the standard 10 armor hack. Just a Idea, but we can add technogy could increase the garrison capacity to two and we can make an aura that increases the vision capacity for each garnished unit. Vision tech can be removed and decay technology can eliminates the conversion into neutral territory for gaia.

Nescio added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 6:15 PM

Well, my preferred solution would be to de-tower outposts, remove their attack entirely, and give them a turret slot instead, like walls have. That's quite a fundamental change, though, and rather different from merely tweaking the stats, like this patch does.

borg- updated this revision to Diff 13122.Aug 7 2020, 12:53 AM
borg- retitled this revision from [gameplay] tweak outpost and decay tech to [gameplay] tweak outpost and remove techs.
borg- edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)

Rebase.

borg- edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Aug 7 2020, 12:54 AM
Nescio added inline comments.Aug 7 2020, 4:13 PM
templates/template_structure_defensive_tower_outpost.xml
45 ↗(On Diff #13122)

1

65 ↗(On Diff #13122)

1?

68 ↗(On Diff #13122)

I'm not sure this is necessary, though I'm not against it.

70 ↗(On Diff #13122)

Correct indentation:

  </Vision>
</Entity>
badosu added a subscriber: badosu.Aug 7 2020, 9:31 PM

Apart from health/loyalty regeneration I don't think outposts are too much broken.

I like the health/armor decrease and the possibility to research a tech to make outposts resilient, one interesting thing is that outposts garrisoned have higher DPS than a Sentry tower with 1 garrison.

borg- updated this revision to Diff 13142.Aug 7 2020, 11:29 PM

New values by @Nescio

borg- edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Aug 7 2020, 11:29 PM

Apart from health/loyalty regeneration I don't think outposts are too much broken.

I like the health/armor decrease and the possibility to research a tech to make outposts resilient, one interesting thing is that outposts garrisoned have higher DPS than a Sentry tower with 1 garrison.

At the moment we prefer to remove technologies that are not good so that in the near future, we can make new technologies more useful.

Nescio accepted this revision.Aug 8 2020, 9:07 AM
  • This patch makes outposts somewhat weaker, but the changes are reasonable.
  • The two outposts technologies are hardly ever researched, therefore removing them makes sense.
  • It's correct and complete.
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Aug 8 2020, 9:07 AM
borg- updated this revision to Diff 13334.Aug 29 2020, 1:28 AM

Rebase.

This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Sep 2 2020, 9:26 AM