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[gameplay] delete armor_hero_01 technology

Authored by Nescio on Aug 5 2020, 6:15 PM.



Heroes already have a lot more armour, health, and attack damage than champions or other soldiers, and they benefit from the existing armour and attack technologies and auras, thus there is really no need for a technology giving them another +2 armour (i.e. equivalent to +23.457% health). This patch therefore deletes the armor_hero_01.json technology.

Test Plan

Agree this is an improvement.

Diff Detail

rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
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Automatic diff as part of commit; unit tests not applicable.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Aug 5 2020, 6:15 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Aug 5 2020, 6:15 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 6:20 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

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Nescio requested review of this revision.Aug 5 2020, 6:51 PM
borg- accepted this revision.Aug 5 2020, 10:13 PM
borg- added a subscriber: borg-.

Yes pls.
So much generic tech and not used.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Aug 5 2020, 10:13 PM
badosu added a subscriber: badosu.Aug 5 2020, 10:39 PM

Just remember to bring back this tech if we ever reduce the heroes health as seems to be probably happening.

borg- added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 10:46 PM

Just remember to bring back this tech if we ever reduce the heroes health as seems to be probably happening.

If we have a patch that the hero cant be training after he is dead, then this type of tech is interesting, but not generic like this.

In D2939#127682, @borg- wrote:

If we have a patch that the hero cant be training after he is dead


Nescio removed a reviewer: Restricted Owners Package.Aug 15 2020, 9:02 PM
Nescio updated this revision to Diff 14056.Nov 19 2020, 12:27 PM
  • rebased
borg- added a comment.Dec 14 2020, 3:51 PM

We can proceed with this patch?

borg- added a comment.Dec 22 2020, 3:03 PM

More opnions?

ValihrAnt accepted this revision as: ValihrAnt.Dec 23 2020, 7:12 PM
ValihrAnt added a subscriber: ValihrAnt.

More opnions?

It's a tech I've never used and see no real point in, at least not currently.

borg- accepted this revision.Dec 27 2020, 11:05 AM

Now the code for limiting a hero to once per match is committed, that is one template change away: D3265.

borg- added a comment.EditedDec 29 2020, 12:29 PM

With D3265 this technology becomes useful, but I still disagree with how it works, a health gain or other attribute seems to me better than armor.

Even though they're now limited to only once each, heroes already have a lot of health and benefit from ordinary technologies, therefore I still think removing this technology (which makes them 25% harder to kill) is an improvement.

at least not currently.

Sounds weird to ask for verification on the same (unchanged) patch, but the meta _has_ changed ;)
So, still agree?

borg- added a comment.Jan 1 2021, 12:59 PM

Remembering also that the health of the cavalry and elephant heroes has been reduced, so it seems fair to me to keep a specific technology for them. it doesn't necessarily have to be only health, they can reduce the cost and time of training for example, and give a small gain of 5% of health.

I'd prefer an HP gain over an armour gain, tbh, I think it makes more sense given the specificity of the tech.
Your call on whether we should still delete this or not.

D3287/rP24604 has been committed today, from which heroes still benefit, confirming for me the need to delete this hero-only technology.

wraitii accepted this revision.Jan 15 2021, 10:58 AM

I think a tech for one unit is a bit odd in the current gameplay. IMO heroes already come with better armour and HP and that should be enough, particularly since they unlock in City phase already. I don't think our gameplay is hero-centric enough that they warrant further upgrades.

+23% HP is also rather underwhelming on the whole IMO.

I'll move forward with deleting this soon unless there's strong disagreement.

Ehhh, I think it would make sense for a Forge tech to increase armor rather than health, but that's not really the focus of this patch.

If it's a tech no one ever researches anyway, then no one will miss it if it's removed.

But then one can wonder why folks don't research this tech. It's either too expensive or not impactful enough for the cost.

(Also, every time armour is replaced with health, the entities doing fire damage are nerfed.)

This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.