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[gameplay] differentiate domestic animals
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Authored by Nescio on Jan 7 2021, 7:13 PM.

Details

Summary

Currently civs can raise only one kind of domestic animal at their corral. Moreover, they all have the same cost, health, and amount of meat. Both points are unrealistic.
In reality the big four (goat, sheep, pig, cattle) had already spread throughout the Old World in the Stone Age and in our time frame were available practically everywhere; it was not an either-or situation; each animal had a somewhat different function.
This patch therefore:

  • enables all four animals at all corrals; the Mauryas have a zebu instead of an ordinary cow, and cart, kush, ptol sanga cattle
  • gave them different stats:
    • cost:health ratio is 1:1
    • cost:meat ratio is 1:2
    • four goats approximately equal three sheep or two pigs or one cow

This should make the game more interesting (especially for players who like biodiversity and choice).

The values are just a first proposal and can be adjusted, of course, especially if and when resource (re)generation (D1718) is in.

Test Plan

Apply the patch, play-test a few games, agree the new values are an improvement.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Jan 7 2021, 7:13 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Jan 7 2021, 7:13 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Jan 7 2021, 7:17 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jan 7 2021, 7:17 PM

Build is green

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stu

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2712/display/redirect for more details.

Nescio requested review of this revision.Jan 7 2021, 7:22 PM
Silier added a subscriber: Silier.Jan 7 2021, 7:26 PM

personally I like the idea, I can't speak about numbers

Silier awarded a token.Jan 7 2021, 7:26 PM
borg- added a subscriber: borg-.EditedJan 7 2021, 10:40 PM

I propose a value of 80 amount food for pig and goat.

The current values are good, so I would not change in %, so if the cost is reduced by 20% then it seems fair to reduce only 20% of amount.

The rest of the values/changes is very good.

So why would one choose a cow over a sheep? Isn't the bigger animal supposed to give a slight advantage in the long term? Bigger investment, bigger reward. (E.g. the goat has a slightly higher cost:resource ratio.)

If the animals are supposed to be equivalent, I think flavour-wise it's more fun to have them specific to certain civs, if we can justify it. It does make civs even more similar.
I'm not sure corralling is used much in the game, but this seems to add relatively un-necessary choice.
That being said, I don't oppose it very strongly, I see the point that players can train what they want.

I propose a value of 80 amount food for pig and goat.

The idea is all animals have different numbers.

The current values are good, so I would not change in %, so if the cost is reduced by 20% then it seems fair to reduce only 20% of amount.

Basically the sheep is mostly unchanged (costs 50 food, grants 100 food), and with this patch is available to all.

So why would one choose a cow over a sheep? Isn't the bigger animal supposed to give a slight advantage in the long term? Bigger investment, bigger reward. (E.g. the goat has a slightly higher cost:resource ratio.)

It does, the difference is in the training time:

  • goat 30
  • sheep 40
  • pig 50
  • cattle 60

Basically bigger animals grant more food per time. However, in the early game food and time are limited, so it's probably better to start with raising smaller animals to get earlier profit returns.

I'm not sure corralling is used much in the game, but this seems to add relatively un-necessary choice.

I guess most ordinary players just ignore it, but some competitive people raise and slaughter domestic animals on a large scale, because gathering meat is much, much faster than gathering grain from fields. (Without technologies cavalry has a food.meat gather rate of 20, infantry a food.grain gather rate of 0.25, i.e. a 20× difference.)

I guess most ordinary players just ignore it, but some competitive people raise and slaughter domestic animals on a large scale, because gathering meat is much, much faster than gathering grain from fields. (Without technologies cavalry has a food.meat gather rate of 20, infantry a food.grain gather rate of 0.25, i.e. a 20× difference.)

This kind of seems like extremely poor design given how micro-heavy that is, but that's a different conversation.

This kind of seems like extremely poor design given how micro-heavy that is, but that's a different conversation.

It is. Personally I really dislike how it currently works in 0 A.D. and would strongly prefer corrals to be disabled by default. However, I'm not proposing that. Let's focus the discussion here on the actual patch.

borg- added a comment.Jan 9 2021, 1:52 PM
This comment was removed by borg-.
borg- added a comment.Jan 9 2021, 1:56 PM

<BuildTime></BuildTime> and <MaxGatherers></MaxGatherers> give the necessary advantages between one animal and another without the need for sporadic increase of <Amount></Amount>.

I would still like to see a goat with an amount of 80, following the logic of patch, double amount per cost, it is a little difficult to use corral at the beginning of the game.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 15072.Jan 9 2021, 2:09 PM
  • −1 <MaxGatherers>
  • goats grant 80 food, per @borg-
borg- accepted this revision.Jan 9 2021, 2:17 PM

@Freagarach with new values, looks good to me.

The patch brings more versatility and love to the corral. There is not future problems to the balance.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Jan 9 2021, 2:17 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jan 9 2021, 2:18 PM

Build is green

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stu

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2730/display/redirect for more details.

This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.