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See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2927/display/redirect for more details.

Don't forget the champion and hero templates.

Attack range is useful when units are massed. While I'm not opposed to giving melee cavalry a bit more range (or at least standardize to 4), I fail to see how this helps with chasing: it's simply the distance at which they stop moving and start attacking, isn't it?

In D3402#151131, @Nescio wrote:

Attack range is useful when units are massed. While I'm not opposed to giving melee cavalry a bit more range (or at least standardize to 4), I fail to see how this helps with chasing: it's simply the distance at which they stop moving and start attacking, isn't it?

It is. It helps because they have to chase less far away to hit, and it increases the "window of opportunity" in which the unit can land a hit, because of movement speed & timing issues it's better to not have that too small.

Dont know about decrease about new move speed.

In D3402#151186, @borg- wrote:

Dont know about decrease about new move speed.

I don't think it's a huge debuf, makes the meta less "get ranged champ cavalry" IMO. What are your doubts ?

As @ValihrAnt wrote elsewhere:

@ValihrAnt wrote:

@wraitii wrote:

@Nescio wrote:

By the way, there is still an open patch by @ValihrAnt reducing cavalry archer speed: D2585 A lot has changed since then; is it still relevant?

I'm lowering the speed of all ranged cavalry in D3402. I'm not sure if we need a specific nerf for the archer early rush still.

With the now reduced archer range I don't think it's needed as tower defense should now be viable to defend the Phase 1 Ptolemie camel rush.

I'm not sure the movement speed reduction is necessary either.

In D3402#151211, @Nescio wrote:

I'm not sure the movement speed reduction is necessary either.

I think it makes a large difference to the effectiveness of the melee cavalry when chasing, and makes the ranged cavalry less dominant at map control. IMO it should be kept, though maybe bumped from 0.9 to 0.92/95 ?

How about making melee cavalry a bit faster instead?

In D3402#151259, @Nescio wrote:

How about making melee cavalry a bit faster instead?

I'd rather not, it's already really fast compared to infantry and others.

For comparison's sake, AoE 2 has inf melee at 0.9, inf archer at speed 0.96, heavy cav at 1.35, light cav at 1.5, Archer cav at 1.4 . Our speed ratio is more like 9 > 20.

I can imagine points 1, 3 and 4 already fix the issue?

In D3402#151440, @Freagarach wrote:

I can imagine points 1, 3 and 4 already fix the issue?

Without the patch, the ranged unit is not killed in 5 minutes. With 1, 3, 4 it's killed in 76 seconds. With 2 on top, it's killed in 40 seconds. If I set it to 0.95, it's killed in 53 seconds.
That's twice as fast.
I don't think we can do without the speed reduction, no.

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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2958/display/redirect for more details.

I'd rather not, it's already really fast compared to infantry and others.

Changing ranged cavalry movement speed alters their effectiveness vs infantry. Melee cavalry can't hit from a distance, so their movement speed affects other entities (e.g. melee infantry) less strongly.

I reduced the range of the Melee cav to the same as the Melee infantry because, on second thought, this probably gives an unfair advantage to cavalry against melee, particularly since their counter (spearmen) have a range of 4.

For comparison, cavalry has a footprint radius of 3, infantry of 1.5, so a range of 4 means two rows of infantry spearmen could hit the unit in front of them, at least in theory; the equivalent melee cavalry range would be 7.
A range of 4 for all melee cavalry is actually better than 3 and it's fair, it's basically half their footprint + 1; that's also what I've been using for animals.

In D3402#151483, @Nescio wrote:

Changing ranged cavalry movement speed alters their effectiveness vs infantry.

yes, but that's actually part of the plan here. This is a straight debuff to ranged cavalry.
@Feldfeld seems to think this is a move in the right direction.

A range of 4 for all melee cavalry is actually better than 3 and it's fair, it's basically half their footprint + 1; that's also what I've been using for animals.

So I should change everything to 4?

@Feldfeld seems to think this is a move in the right direction.

Fine by me then.

So I should change everything to 4?

All melee cavalry attacks, yes. In my opinion that's something that should have been done anyway, regardless of this patch.

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/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libsimulation2_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Force

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2968/display/redirect for more details.

Build is green

builderr-debug-macos.txt
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libsimulation2_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libatlas_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceF

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2970/display/redirect for more details.