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[Proposal] Rome Scipio Africanus Hero
AbandonedPublic

Authored by Grugnas on Apr 16 2017, 7:37 PM.

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fatherbushido
Summary

+100% Vision sharing duration and -50% bribe cost while Scipio Africanus lives.

Test Plan

Scipio Africanus isn't known only for his military achievements yielding fortune to Rome but also for his political influence. The ruin of his political career was in fact caused by one of his agreements, Scipio was accused of having taken a bribe from Anthiochus III and of embezzling public funds.

EDIT: It's eventually planned to hide own bribable units from enemy espionage.

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Event Timeline

Grugnas created this revision.Apr 16 2017, 7:37 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Apr 16 2017, 7:37 PM
Grugnas edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)Apr 16 2017, 7:39 PM
Grugnas added a reviewer: fatherbushido.
Vulcan added a subscriber: Vulcan.Apr 16 2017, 8:47 PM

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fatherbushido edited edge metadata.EditedApr 16 2017, 9:47 PM

The idea sounds nice, use the new feature and is a bit historic, the effect can look powerfull but we need at least that to make it usefull.
You need to check, VisionSharing/Duration is iirc to be modified for the ennemy traders (the bribed unit) isn't it? (check it, I am lazy to do it :p)
Can you detailed the choosen name? (I didn't succeed to translate it, it's latin or english?)

Grugnas added a comment.EditedApr 16 2017, 10:16 PM

The aura name is in Latin and its: Arbiter Romae
It means "Arbiter of Rome" addressing to his ability to oversee the map with metal by bribing enemy units to carrefully plan diplomatic actions or declarations of war in case.
Indeed it seems powerful and most of times, simply boosting own troops isn't always the best strategy expecially in team games where the teamplay makes the difference in game.
There is a Duration entry to define the time the spied unit will share the Vision Range.
In order to implement the aura that will cover own traders from enemy bribing (it will simply not share vision due no bribable units found) is probably enough a function that temporary changes the VisionSharing/Bribable entry of own traders from true to false.

fatherbushido added a comment.EditedApr 16 2017, 10:33 PM
In D345#13460, @Grugnas wrote:

There is a Duration entry to define the time the spied unit will share the Vision Range.
In order to implement the aura that will cover own traders from enemy bribing (it will simply not share vision due no bribable units found) is probably enough a function that temporary changes the VisionSharing/Bribable entry of own traders from true to false.

Yes, I speak too fast it seems.
EDIT: It's ok, I checked, I was confused because there are different ways to get the duration of the spy.

Hannibal_Barca edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)Apr 17 2017, 10:23 AM
fatherbushido added a subscriber: Hannibal_Barca.EditedApr 18 2017, 11:37 AM

The @Hannibal_Barca diff description should be imo used and merged with the History entry (I mean check and rewrite the History part and include that thing).

fatherbushido resigned from this revision.Apr 23 2017, 6:04 PM
fatherbushido added a comment.EditedMay 16 2017, 7:48 AM

Looking at design docs again (and forum archives),
perhaps we can only make marcellus aura for cavalry and scipio a really powerfull attack one for all kind of units but with a close range (~10).
So similar 'attack effect' but a real choice.

(Here is the ref: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Romans_Republican?version=1#HEROES)

Grugnas updated this revision to Diff 1969.EditedMay 16 2017, 10:30 AM

reupload.

@fatherbushido hoestly I'd keep current design for a couple of reasons:
-Actually spear cavalry isn't as strong in battlefield as in raiding, expecially Roman cavalry which has no extra techs. Having more heroes affecting units damage, would simply let players choice the most relevant one.
-I can't quantify low range for an eventual Scipio aura since 30 mts would be enough for skirmishers to take advantage from the bonus and they are the main damage source expecially against champions.

  • Having heroes to promote different strategies will avoid eventual unused heroes rather than promoting different units spam.
Grugnas updated this revision to Diff 1970.May 16 2017, 10:31 AM
  • patch reupload

Good suggestion.

In addition I'd like Scipio Africanus to weaken enemy war elephants, since one of his great ideas was to prepare traps for them during the battle of Zama, rendering them quite useless.

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fatherbushido added a comment.EditedMay 16 2017, 11:36 AM
In D345#20404, @Grugnas wrote:

-Actually spear cavalry isn't as strong in battlefield as in raiding, expecially Roman cavalry which has no extra techs. Having more heroes affecting units damage, would simply let players choice the most relevant one.

What do you mean by relevant here?

-I can't quantify low range for an eventual Scipio aura since 30 mts would be enough for skirmishers to take advantage from the bonus and they are the main damage source expecially against champions.

I wrote ~10.

  • Having heroes to promote different strategies will avoid eventual unused heroes rather than promoting different units spam

Did I ever say the converse? Funny.

Build is green

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Running cxxtest tests (306 tests)..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................OK!
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Running cxxtest tests (306 tests)..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................OK!

http://jw:8080/job/phabricator/1227/ for more details.

In D345#20404, @Grugnas wrote:

-Actually spear cavalry isn't as strong in battlefield as in raiding, expecially Roman cavalry which has no extra techs. Having more heroes affecting units damage, would simply let players choice the most relevant one.

What do you mean by relevant here?

-I can't quantify low range for an eventual Scipio aura since 30 mts would be enough for skirmishers to take advantage from the bonus and they are the main damage source expecially against champions.

I wrote ~10.

  • Having heroes to promote different strategies will avoid eventual unused heroes rather than promoting different units spam

Did I ever say the converse? Funny.

Consider that all roman heroes are cavalry swordsmen units. Having an evetual really powerfull attack one for all kind of units but with a close range (~10). would already make the aura for cavalry a surplus because heroes move fast enough to get in place and affect the "right" units, expecially melee units who are easier to affect because heroes attack at melee range.
On the other hand a really strong low range aura can be strong in open fields in low scale battles only because units deployment can easly be wider than 10 mts in a medium-large scale battle, and it would affect basically melee units only which aren't the main damage output (skirmishers make difference against melee units and there are heroes who boost ranged units also thanks to their wide range) or catapults with a carefully micromanagement. Indeed champions would benefit from such aura, but consider also that citizen soldiers are prone to die in enemy territory and probably a strong armor aura would be more useful and would help citizen soldiers to get promotion instead of trying to deal the most of damage before they die.

fatherbushido requested changes to this revision.EditedMay 16 2017, 6:47 PM

So think again about that, reconsider if that interesting modification could be used elsewhere, read again some iterations of design docs for that civ, consider also that all those heros are mainly related to the second punic war.
Also scipio :) (was the replacement of Julius wich doesn't fit to the period).
Set Request changes to go back to that.

This revision now requires changes to proceed.May 16 2017, 6:47 PM
Grugnas abandoned this revision.May 28 2017, 1:43 PM