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I would also like to include ranged cavalry for this. However I would like to hear the opinions of the balancing advisors before implementing that.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

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Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

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Heavily armored elphants killed by arrows seems a bit unrealistic me thinks

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

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I think it's unrealistic, but following the idea of the patch, isn't it more interesting to just lower the elephant's pierce shield?

In D4051#174090, @borg- wrote:

I think it's unrealistic, but following the idea of the patch, isn't it more interesting to just lower the elephant's pierce shield?

Yes, this is what I was thinking. Ideally, I envision a setup like how ele/rams were in a23 but with ele buffed so they don't die so fast.

Also, I want to loop in @ValihrAnt and @Edwarf for their opinions on whether this is something worth considering in place of the 3x spear/pike counter.

I think this makes more gameplay sense but I am not wed to the idea.

This might make elephants a little underpowered, maybe? Wouldn't archers in particular become quite OP against elephants?

In D4051#174209, @wraitii wrote:

This might make elephants a little underpowered, maybe? Wouldn't archers in particular become quite OP against elephants?

Perhaps. It needs some testing for sure. This balancing act is part of the reason why I think the armor/hp approach will be better if this is the approach taken. But yes, if this approach is taken then we need to be careful to not make ele large, vulnerable targets like they were in a23.

Even if ele do become weaker, I don't think that is the worst thing. Not all civs have ele, so I don't think they should be the strongest siege unit (plus the best anti-sege unit). Moreover, ele civs tend to have other advantages/siege (i.e., extra pop for Persia/Maurya, all of Ptol bonuses and siege, and extra siege unit types for Carth/Sele) that non-ele civs lack. Even if ele become a second-class siege unit they will still be large meat shields that will attract the attention of defending armies, which will allow attacking players to kill the distracted army and bring in rams to finish the job.

3x bonus is way too much. It'd make them far weaker than they were in previous releases. I prefer to give a bonus to spearmen/pikemen or to simply reduce the armor values of elephants by 2 or 3.