Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

builderr-debug-macos.txt
fatal error: fatal errorfile '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was builtfatal error
: fatal errorfile '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was built
: : file '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was builtfile '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was built

notenotenotenote: : : please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
: please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/MiniMapTexture.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/CinemaManager.o] Error 1
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/MapGenerator.o] Error 1
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/MapReader.o] Error 1
make: *** [graphics] Error 2

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/5893/display/redirect

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

builderr-debug-macos.txt
fatal error: file '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was built
note: please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
fatal error: file '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was built
note: please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
fatal error: file '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was built
note: please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
fatal error: file '/Users/wfg/Jenkins/workspace/macos-differential/build/workspaces/gcc/../../../libraries/source/glad/include/glad/gl.h' has been modified since the precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch' was built
note: please rebuild precompiled header 'obj/graphics_Debug/precompiled.h.gch'
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/CinemaManager.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/MiniMapTexture.o] Error 1
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/MapGenerator.o] Error 1
1 error generated.
make[1]: *** [obj/graphics_Debug/MapReader.o] Error 1
make: *** [graphics] Error 2

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/5894/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/6984/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/6985/display/redirect

It would be cooler (IMHO) to make these upgrades of the Defense Tower instead of standalone structures. What do you think?

I could change it make them available as an upgrade, I know they were before they were removed. Do you mean that they should only by available as an upgrade, or available as an upgrade in addition to being buildable? I would prefer to keep them available as standalone structures, but adding an upgrade seems like a good idea.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/7594/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/6988/display/redirect

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/5897/display/redirect

Could someone on the balancing team please review this?

I don't think you will get a quick review on this one...
In general I think bolt/ artillery towers could be an interesting element in the game, but I'm not convinced that adding them to the macedonians without a bigger concept of how different civilizations should play is a good idea.

Macedonians are a siege heavy civ, which means they are (should be) a bit stronger in aggressive play. When adding these towers to them, they also get very good at defending which seems like a bad choice for overall gameplay.

Unfortunately I don't have a batter idea of how to integrate those towers, which is probably also why no one from the balancing team gave their opinion here.

In D4587#196190, @marder wrote:

I don't think you will get a quick review on this one...
In general I think bolt/ artillery towers could be an interesting element in the game, but I'm not convinced that adding them to the macedonians without a bigger concept of how different civilizations should play is a good idea.

Macedonians are a siege heavy civ, which means they are (should be) a bit stronger in aggressive play. When adding these towers to them, they also get very good at defending which seems like a bad choice for overall gameplay.

Unfortunately I don't have a batter idea of how to integrate those towers, which is probably also why no one from the balancing team gave their opinion here.

Yes, its a bit tricky: I like the idea and I like the designs, but I'm not sure if mace need these, and I don't know if it would be strange if no other civs received these. It is true that mace should be an aggressive civ, but currently they struggle a little vs rams, so in that sense, they could be helpful. I don't know if one or both are appropriate or not either. It seems to me like these would not be super OP. I think it is better to add them and maybe remove them if they are OP in rc1. The other worry is tower rushes with these, but the build time should make them easy to deny.

I see two potential gameplay issues:
how close the towers can be built. With larger ranges than defense towers and the same minimum separation, these could be OP. If we want to keep their acquisition through upgrades, perhaps add a build/research limit of 3? Maybe 5?

There is another outcome that might make these very strong: denying resources. With a range of 90 meters, a bolt tower could comfortable deny a ton of enemy resources especially when borders touch. At the same time, they should be easily denied, so maybe this won't be a problem.

In general I think bolt/ artillery towers could be an interesting element in the game, but I'm not convinced that adding them to the macedonians without a bigger concept of how different civilizations should play is a good idea.

Perhaps this should be delayed until the design document is resolved? Or, if that doesn't work out, until the next alpha?

Macedonians are a siege heavy civ, which means they are (should be) a bit stronger in aggressive play. When adding these towers to them, they also get very good at defending which seems like a bad choice for overall gameplay.
Unfortunately I don't have a batter idea of how to integrate those towers, which is probably also why no one from the balancing team gave their opinion here.

It does seem that these would be better with a more defensive civ. The towers are also available for Athenians, Carthaginians, Ptolmeys, Romans, Seleucids, and Spartans. Is there be any of these that would be a better candidate to have them enabled? If so, I could change this patch.

With larger ranges than defense towers and the same minimum separation, these could be OP. If we want to keep their acquisition through upgrades, perhaps add a build/research limit of 3? Maybe 5?

In testing, these seem to be effective against rams, but otherwise not a very effective defence, since they have a low rate of fire and the catapult towers cannot target individual troops effectively. I don't think players would actually want to build more than one or two of these close together, since they need to be defended against any troops that approach, which requires a defence tower nearby.

There is another outcome that might make these very strong: denying resources. With a range of 90 meters, a bolt tower could comfortable deny a ton of enemy resources especially when borders touch. At the same time, they should be easily denied, so maybe this won't be a problem.

This does seem like a possibility, though I don't see how to fix it. Decreasing the range could work, but that would basically make the bolt towers worse, more expensive defence towers.

This patch still interests me.
Is this tower historically correct for Macedonian?
I think it could be a good step towards differentiation.

In D4587#218669, @borg- wrote:

This patch still interests me.
Is this tower historically correct for Macedonian?
I think it could be a good step towards differentiation.

These were the reasons for removal: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D2495
It seems a few things should be decided:

• Which civs to give one or both towers to
• What range would be appropriate? Because of overlap and minimum distance, should the range be the same as defense tower, with only the projectile changing?
• What upgrade cost and time should they have, and how should this compare with building it?

I don't think of it as an update to the stone tower, as this could be a problem, taking into account that some technologies would not be effective in these new towers. I think of it as a third buildable tower, with a limit of one and similar ranges to land units.
I don't know which civilization would be historically correct for these towers. I thought at first just for mace, as a civ differentiation, since it is a civilization strong in siege.

In D4587#218674, @borg- wrote:

I don't think of it as an update to the stone tower, as this could be a problem, taking into account that some technologies would not be effective in these new towers. I think of it as a third buildable tower, with a limit of one and similar ranges to land units.
I don't know which civilization would be historically correct for these towers. I thought at first just for mace, as a civ differentiation, since it is a civilization strong in siege.

At least one of them could work for mace, rome, ptols, seleucids, and athens. But I disagree with giving it a build limit of 1 and making it as strong as siege engines. That seems quite gimmicky and could result in strange gameplay.

We can maintain the same operation as siege machines, but with a longer firing time. Testing is needed, but I think a bolt tower should be equally strong as a fully garrisoned stone tower. The advantage is that you would have 5 more units available for combat. There may also be an aura for these towers, for each garrisoned unit, the tower fires faster.

I think they should be a new class of tower for civs that have some historical backing. Then they can be balanced as needed including changes to cost, buildtime, range, and damage. What is the point of giving it the same range and damage as a siege unit?

Well for me the numbers are not important now, we just need to find some historical context to add to some civilizations.