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Adjust batch modifier from upgraded Han CC
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Authored by marder on Mar 4 2023, 6:07 PM.

Details

Reviewers
None
Group Reviewers
Balancing
Commits
rP27584: [Gameplay] - Adjust batch modifier from upgraded Han CC
Trac Tickets
#6755
Summary

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/106426-incredibly-fast-training-times/

Seems indeed very op for that price
Solution: Use half the current value (for now)

Refs: #6755 because of the description

Test Plan

agree / disagree or come up with other options

Event Timeline

marder created this revision.Mar 4 2023, 6:07 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Mar 4 2023, 6:10 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/7954/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Mar 4 2023, 6:13 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
builderr-release-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/6866/display/redirect

marder requested review of this revision.Mar 4 2023, 6:24 PM
Silier added a subscriber: Silier.Mar 4 2023, 7:02 PM

What if it would be halfed instead of removed?

marder added a comment.Mar 4 2023, 7:12 PM

sure might also be enough. I basically want to hear more input on this and just picked the removal as a discussion starter.

What if it would be halfed instead of removed?

I tend to agree here.

I side more towards removing it:
It is currently considered a "Super CC" which is aptly named.

  • you get it for less than a fort (to train heroes)
  • you don't have to build it like a fort (save lots of eco)
  • 33 max arrows
  • more health and capture points
  • and lastly the batch train modifier.

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh). Remove the batch train modifier, and it will still be a "super cc" but without the strength of training units faster.

marder added a comment.Mar 5 2023, 3:57 PM

How about we go for <BatchTimeModifier op="mul">0.8</BatchTimeModifier> / slightly worse then half the current effect

and then reevaluate at the rc?

marder added a comment.Mar 5 2023, 3:59 PM

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh).

also agreement on that

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh).

also agreement on that

Separate it out to make it a new tech? For Han or another else. I don’t care, but I generally dislike cutting things instead of balancing them

marder added a comment.Mar 6 2023, 8:16 AM

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh).

also agreement on that

Separate it out to make it a new tech? For Han or another else. I don’t care, but I generally dislike cutting things instead of balancing them

I would keep it (for the Han) for now albeit a bit nerfed.

And yes cutting features is also bad - I mostly wanted to agree that each civ should imo have a well defined set of positive traits and weaknesses.
Just reminded me on the whole discussion about what type of soldiers the the Han should have and one opinion was: every possibly type.
But to me it doesn't seem that fun to have a faction that has every possible feature stacked.

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh).

also agreement on that

Separate it out to make it a new tech? For Han or another else. I don’t care, but I generally dislike cutting things instead of balancing them

I would keep it (for the Han) for now albeit a bit nerfed.

And yes cutting features is also bad - I mostly wanted to agree that each civ should imo have a well defined set of positive traits and weaknesses.
Just reminded me on the whole discussion about what type of soldiers the the Han should have and one opinion was: every possibly type.
But to me it doesn't seem that fun to have a faction that has every possible feature stacked.

I agree/am ok with every that’s been said. My only point is that we should modify what we have (even if that is just giving it to another civ) instead of scrapping it entirely.

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh).

also agreement on that

Separate it out to make it a new tech? For Han or another else. I don’t care, but I generally dislike cutting things instead of balancing them

I would keep it (for the Han) for now albeit a bit nerfed.

And yes cutting features is also bad - I mostly wanted to agree that each civ should imo have a well defined set of positive traits and weaknesses.
Just reminded me on the whole discussion about what type of soldiers the the Han should have and one opinion was: every possibly type.
But to me it doesn't seem that fun to have a faction that has every possible feature stacked.

I agree/am ok with every that’s been said. My only point is that we should modify what we have (even if that is just giving it to another civ) instead of scrapping it entirely.

I don't think removing 1 bonus of the super CC is "scrapping it entirely". It's not wasted effort to delete one line from an xml file.
"Modifying" the super cc would be removing one of its bonuses. It is not good design to allow one feature to have all the possible benefits. Imagine we add a hero that gives a move speed aura, damage aura, armor aura, healing aura, and capture aura to all soldiers. It would be ridiculous.
Halving it to 25% would make it more balanced I guess, but from a design standpoint it is questionable to have one building thats good at everything.

In my opinion, features like this should have a particular set of strengths that make them interesting, rather than ALL of the possible strengths (my thoughts on han in general tbh).

also agreement on that

Separate it out to make it a new tech? For Han or another else. I don’t care, but I generally dislike cutting things instead of balancing them

I would keep it (for the Han) for now albeit a bit nerfed.

And yes cutting features is also bad - I mostly wanted to agree that each civ should imo have a well defined set of positive traits and weaknesses.
Just reminded me on the whole discussion about what type of soldiers the the Han should have and one opinion was: every possibly type.
But to me it doesn't seem that fun to have a faction that has every possible feature stacked.

I agree/am ok with every that’s been said. My only point is that we should modify what we have (even if that is just giving it to another civ) instead of scrapping it entirely.

I don't think removing 1 bonus of the super CC is "scrapping it entirely". It's not wasted effort to delete one line from an xml file.
"Modifying" the super cc would be removing one of its bonuses. It is not good design to allow one feature to have all the possible benefits. Imagine we add a hero that gives a move speed aura, damage aura, armor aura, healing aura, and capture aura to all soldiers. It would be ridiculous.
Halving it to 25% would make it more balanced I guess, but from a design standpoint it is questionable to have one building thats good at everything.

I mean the feature, generally. I don't care if it is part of the super CC tech. I also don't care if the tech remains specific to Han. But I do think a big batch trainer bonus that is limited to 1 building is interesting and something that I don't want to totally disappear.

@chrstgtr I actually think this might be a good thing to give to champ buildings. It seems that most of the time dedicated champion buildings are less effective than champions trained from barracks/stable.
it makes sense that dedicated champ buildings could train champions better than barracks/stable. A -15% or -20% batch train modifier for champ buildings could go a long way for making champ buildings more balanced compared to training from barracks/stable.

defc0n added a subscriber: defc0n.Mar 7 2023, 6:11 PM

@chrstgtr I actually think this might be a good thing to give to champ buildings. It seems that most of the time dedicated champion buildings are less effective than champions trained from barracks/stable.
it makes sense that dedicated champ buildings could train champions better than barracks/stable. A -15% or -20% batch train modifier for champ buildings could go a long way for making champ buildings more balanced compared to training from barracks/stable.

Yeah, that's been needed for awhile in my opinion. Big fan of your idea, here.

I would also like to keep the Han bonus (with modifications) as something just from the CC (or a buildable super CC). I find it unique because it allows a player to rebuild from nothing relatively fast. That is helpful if a player ever loses their whole population while being low on CCs. Maybe that is too niche, though.

keep in mind, they already have the crossbow training upgrade which allows xbows to be trained almost as fast as women (as fast if they have the roman bonus)

keep in mind, they already have the crossbow training upgrade which allows xbows to be trained almost as fast as women (as fast if they have the roman bonus)

The xbow tech is actually one of the only techs I would like to see deleted because it encourages single unit spam.

I find the CC upgrade batch upgrade interesting because it allows one building to (relatively) quickly repop from a very low population level. I don't care if it is Han or another civ. On this, I am not even sure which civ it would make sense to be paired with--is there any civ that was decimated and then quickly rebuilt?

If no one else agrees with me and wants the tech deleted, that's fine--I don't actually care a lot. I'm more stating a principle here.


chrstgtr wrote: If no one else agrees with me and wants the tech deleted, that's fine--I don't actually care a lot. I'm more stating a principle here.

Keeping the BatchModifier is fine. The Han CC becomes an important chess piece, provided the player has planned ahead by upgrading it and amassed enough resources to take advantage of the batch modifier.
This gives the Han a little more uniqueness in the way they are played and may even allow for a comeback victory if a major battle is lost earlier. It makes gameplay more rewarding and enjoyable. It is consistent with the vision of 0 A.D..

marder updated this revision to Diff 21669.Mar 11 2023, 10:37 AM

half the current modifier.
Adjust tootip to be very vague

(Other option would be to keep the current modifier but adjust the price?)

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/7974/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/6886/display/redirect

marder retitled this revision from remove batch modifier from upgraded Han CC to Adjust batch modifier from upgraded Han CC.Mar 18 2023, 8:19 AM
marder edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
marder updated the Trac tickets for this revision.
This revision was not accepted when it landed; it landed in state Needs Review.Mar 18 2023, 8:26 AM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Mar 18 2023, 8:26 AM