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Paste P275

Shortlist for potentially removable random maps

Authored by lyv on Jun 3 2022, 11:06 PM.
african_plains.json - Absorb into mainland.json
anatolian_plateau.json - Just plain boring, literal disk.
bahrain.json - Somewhat unplayable and unfair terrain. I do not like these large scale real world maps because the scale just destroys immersion.
belgian_uplands.json - belgian_bog.json is better and represent the same geography, the High Fens
botswanan_haven.json - Somewhat meh, nothing really original and doesn't look too aesthetically nice either.
continent.json - Mainland with ocean. Original concept and should just be updated instead.
dodecanese.json - Unplayable. Too many islands. Gap between water too small for ships as well.
frontier.json - Nothing special, existing concept.
gear.json - More of a novelty I suppose.
harbor.json - Currently buggy, needs fixing. Original concept, should keep.
hyrcanian_shores.json - Just mainland.
india.json - In favor of lake.json, needs a unique concept,
kerala.json - Identical to hyrcanian_shores.json
latium.json - Not that good looking.
lions_den.json - Labyrinth type map. A better more natural looking one already exists.
mediterranean.json - Same as bahrain.json
oasis.json - Unique concept, updated and keep.
polynesia.json - Extremely out of place, better island maps exist.
pompeii.json - Keep either this or volcanic_lands.json
red_sea.json - Very good looking. The same problem as other heightmaps of broad geographical regions, but aesthetically worth keeping.
rivers.json - A similiar map exists, but this concept is unique.
rhine_marshlands.json - Similar to belgian_bog.json even though different area, could be kept if the river is included, otherwise remove.
saharan_oases.json - Original concept, update and keep.
sahel.json - Absorb into mainland.json
sahel_watering_holes.json - Essentially rivers with a land center. Undecided.
volcanic_lands.json - Keep either this or pompeii.json

Event Timeline

lyv created this paste.Jun 3 2022, 11:06 PM
lyv created this object with visibility "Public (No Login Required)".

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @marder and all other resident map judgement experts.

There are currently over 80 random maps, making large changes to rmgen is not really feasible if all of them have to be routinely updated, some can be automated, some can't. Which is also the reason why the library has a fooDeprecated set of functions simulating buggy behaviour of foo. In the interest of maintainability, I propose removing some redundant maps.

marder added a comment.EditedJun 4 2022, 12:00 AM

very much agreed.

Here is my list of random maps that are very similar to each other/ offer a very similar gamplay.
I don't think it will hurt to only have one of them left or combine them using biomes.

Sahel - Mainland(savanna/steppe biome) - Anatolian Plateau [keep mainland]
African plaines - Syria - Atlas mountains - Volcanic Lands [overall not a fan of any of those maps]
Belgian Upland - Rhine Marshlands [Belgian Upland can be interesting but also hilariously unfair]
Arctic summer - Botswana haven [Could be combined / or Botswana haven deleted]
India - Lake [keep Lake]
Sahel Water Holes - Rivers [keep either one]
Phoenician Levant - Northern Lights [keep Northern Lights]
Kerala - Hycranian Shores - Hellas [Hellas seems like the most interesting]

I agree with basically all the points from the paste.

Also: The same is true for the skirmish maps. For reference here is another rating I did a while back:
We could easily remove 10, + the demo & sandbox maps

But all the discussion in that direction were deemed to be to controversial iirc :/

lyv edited the content of this paste. (Show Details)Jun 4 2022, 12:15 PM
lyv added a comment.Jun 4 2022, 12:20 PM
In P275#2245, @marder wrote:

Here is my list of random maps that are very similar to each other/ offer a very similar gamplay.
I don't think it will hurt to only have one of them left or combine them using biomes.

List updated.

For India, and the regional maps, these can be combined into a unique concept using mixed biomes showing the western border of modern day India. The Thar desert from Rajasthan to the low lands in Kerala. North to South. More minerals in the north against fish and hunt in the south.

I agree with this. The currently bloated list of maps gives the illusion of choice, when people actually only tend to choose a dozen or less. Cutting the fat, as they say, increases the overall quality of what remains. It also gives us a smaller workset as we endeavor to improve the maps that remain.

I suggest we give all removed maps to the 'Community Maps' mod, if the curator of that mod wants them. Or we create a new mod called "Legacy Maps."

I suggest we give all removed maps to the 'Community Maps' mod, if the curator of that mod wants them.

I don't see any maps there that I'd want. Except Frontier. I've seen people play that often. But maybe they're just playing it because they like the team placement options. I think players would like a little more wood on it though. I think you should reconsider keeping Frontier.

It seems like it would be good to have a way to keep track of how often maps are played. It would be much easier to decide in the future, based on player interest.

I wonder if that's a part of the reporting statistics, or can be added.

Stan added a comment.Jun 6 2022, 2:57 PM

Statistics are only for hardware. We don't send any extra data. It's in the user reporter terms :)

lyv added a comment.EditedJun 6 2022, 2:58 PM

The lobby ratings bot suggests that its available at least for rated games. But that's hardly useful. Significantly biased towards a few maps (read mainland).

taking a closer look I would say that map is indeed not good and should rather be removed than fixed.

Looks like people like gear sometimes and I also seen some games on harbor, empire and continent, so I would remove them from the list for now. (although harbor needs to be fixed and empire should be changes so that the hill are never passable.)

andy5995 added a comment.EditedJun 14 2022, 7:08 AM

It seems like I see Latium played pretty regularly in the lobby. But I think it could be replaced by a rectangular map that supports all the biomes, like Mainland Rectangled in community maps. Nothing special about that one, it's just Mainland but with canyons on each side so the playing area is rectangular. Although Latium has rivers on each side, so more like Yekaterinaville (also in community maps).

I think a major reason for latium being popular is also the team placement.

We need to make team placement agnostic then, so a variety of placement options can be available for all maps (individual maps can disable some options if desired).