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[gameplay] unify ranged soldier (and structure) attack ranges
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Authored by Nescio on Jan 6 2021, 4:34 PM.

Details

Summary

Currently ranged troops have the following attack ranges:

                      b ,  a ,  e ,  c ,  h
infantry javelineer: 24 , 28 , 32 , 28 , 32
cavalry javelineer : 28 , 32 , 36 , 32 , 36
infantry slinger   : 48 , 52 , 56
infantry archer    : 72 , 76 , 80 , 76 , 80
cavalry archer     : 72 , 76 , 80 , 76 , 80
elephant archer    : 72 , 76 , 80

It doesn't make much sense cavalry javelineers have more range than their infantry counterparts, or that elite troops have more range than champions.
This patch removes those range differences and unifies them to a simpler:

30: javelineers
50: slingers
60: crossbowmen
70: archers
80: archers with archery tradition

See also D2494, D2886, D3246, D3314.

[EDIT] While at it, this patch also gives arrow-shooting structures (e.g. centres, towers) the same maximum attack range as archers (i.e. 70), for consistency.

Test Plan

Agree with the proposed values.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Jan 6 2021, 4:34 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Jan 6 2021, 4:34 PM
Nescio edited subscribers, added: ValihrAnt, borg-, Boudica; removed: Restricted Owners Package.Jan 6 2021, 4:36 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jan 6 2021, 4:45 PM

Build is green

builderr-debug-macos.txt
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libnetwork_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libsimulation2_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libengine_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/libgraphics_dbg.a(precompiled.o) has no symbols
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../../binaries/system/liblowlevel_dbg.a(dbghelp.o) has no symbols
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/ranlib: file: ../../..

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2704/display/redirect for more details.

Nescio requested review of this revision.Jan 6 2021, 4:53 PM
borg- added a comment.EditedJan 6 2021, 5:53 PM

This patch resolves several inconsistency issues between citizen and champions.

It is fair to increase the tech range (tradition) since remove from elite/advance techs.

Decreasing the range of archers a bit is also interesting because it can be hit more easily by defense structures. It also makes the Ptolemaic camel archer rush a little less op.

I not risk increasing the slinger range, would keep with this.

In the rest the patch is very good.

Nescio added a comment.Jan 6 2021, 6:38 PM

I would increase javelin range to a maximum of 28, and also not risk increasing the slinger range.

30 is the current average range of b, a, e javelineers and 52 of slingers, so their ranges are not really increased across the board.
Archers have slightly less range indeed, they currently have an average of 76. (Another reason why I chose the proposed numbers is they're nice and round.)
I recommend giving these ranges a try, and if a troop type turns out to be really weakened or strengthened, adjust their attack damage a bit afterwards (cf. D2612/rP23543).

It is fair to increase the tech range (tradition) since remove from elite/advance techs.

Basically it restores the range increase to what it was prior to D2876/rP23891.

binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/technologies/archery_tradition.json
25

This line could actually be purged: infantry already has a vision range of 80, with this patch archers can have a range of 70+10 (instead of up to 80+8).

borg- added a comment.Jan 6 2021, 6:52 PM

I would increase javelin range to a maximum of 28, and also not risk increasing the slinger range.

30 is the current average range of b, a, e javelineers and 52 of slingers, so their ranges are not really increased across the board.
Archers have slightly less range indeed, they currently have an average of 76. (Another reason why I chose the proposed numbers is they're nice and round.)
I recommend giving these ranges a try, and if a troop type turns out to be really weakened or strengthened, adjust their attack damage a bit afterwards (cf. D2612/rP23543).

It is fair to increase the tech range (tradition) since remove from elite/advance techs.

Basically it restores the range increase to what it was prior to D2876/rP23891.

I had already edited the post. With D3256, 30 can be better.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 15048.Jan 7 2021, 8:27 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio removed a subscriber: Boudica.
  • give arrow-shooting structures the same maximum attack range as archers, per @borg-
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Jan 7 2021, 8:27 PM
Nescio added inline comments.Jan 7 2021, 8:29 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_structure_civic_civil_centre.xml
24

This spread is rather low; something for a future patch.

Nescio retitled this revision from [gameplay] unify ranged soldier attack ranges to [gameplay] unify ranged soldier (and structure) attack ranges.Jan 7 2021, 8:29 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Jan 7 2021, 8:32 PM

Build is green

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stu

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2713/display/redirect for more details.

borg- added a comment.Jan 7 2021, 10:33 PM

Since army camp can no longer train siege units, would it be interesting to keep 70 as well?

borg- added a comment.Jan 9 2021, 2:55 PM

I played a game with valirhant on svn and really noticed that the center is shooting further. The reduction from 72 to 70 is very welcome. I'm thinking about the possibility of a general reduction to 68.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 15099.Jan 10 2021, 3:27 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • increase rome army camp attack range from 60 to 70, per @borg-
Nescio added inline comments.Jan 10 2021, 3:30 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/structures/rome/army_camp.xml
8

This seems rather high. For comparison:

  • civic centres have 12
  • village towers have 9
  • town towers have 12
  • fortresses have 16

and have the same reload time.
Probably something for a future patch.

Build is green

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stu

See https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/2746/display/redirect for more details.

borg- accepted this revision.Jan 11 2021, 3:40 AM

This patch removes inconsistencies between elite/advanced citizen units and champions.
Despite increasing the range of slinger and javelin, it still makes them weaker by removing the +4 gain, and that's a good thing.
With the natural increase in the range of constructions such as fortress and cc, this small reduction from 72 to 70 is welcome, and if @Nescio opts for 68, I still agree.

binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/structures/rome/army_camp.xml
8

I agree, it should be done soon. With the increase in the reach of these constructions and maybe also vision (D3314), I would lower those numbers.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Jan 11 2021, 3:40 AM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.