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Differential D3599

[gameplay] tweak elephant archer again
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Authored by Nescio on Feb 24 2021, 7:29 PM.

Details

Reviewers
None
Group Reviewers
Balancing
Summary

This patch is a follow-up to D2575/rP23728; it does the following:

  • The elephant archer's population is increased from 1 to 2 (champion elephants have 3).
  • The elephant archer's attack damage is halved, to be the same value as that of cavalry archers.
  • The elephant archer's resistance is lowered to 1 hack and 1 pierce, to be the same as that of cavalry and infantry archers, making comparing easier.
  • To compensate, its health is raised, furthering the gap with cavalry.
  • Its costs is changed from 175 food + 75 wood to 200 food + 50 wood (cavalry archers cost 100 food + 50 wood, infantry 50 each).
  • The experience loot it grants is lowered to 200 (champion elephants give 300).
  • The experience required to promote to the next level is raised by a third.

Together this makes elephant archers less deadly, yet still interesting and different from other archers.

Test Plan

Check for mistakes, playtest as Mauryas, agree it's an improvement.

Diff Detail

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Feb 24 2021, 7:29 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Feb 24 2021, 7:29 PM
Herald added a reviewer: Balancing. · View Herald TranscriptFeb 24 2021, 7:29 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Feb 24 2021, 7:30 PM
Nescio removed a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.
Vulcan added a comment.Feb 24 2021, 7:32 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Debug: 
Microsoft (R) Build Engine version 15.9.21+g9802d43bc3 for .NET Framework
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Release: 
Microsoft (R) Build Engine version 15.9.21+g9802d43bc3 for .NET Framework
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/4390/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Feb 24 2021, 7:34 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: object file (../../../libraries/osx/fmt/lib/libfmt.a(format.cc.o)) was built for newer OSX version (10.13) than being linked (10.12)
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
builderr-release-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: object file (../../../libraries/osx/fmt/lib/libfmt.a(format.cc.o)) was built for newer OSX version (10.13) than being linked (10.12)
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/3290/display/redirect

Harbormaster completed remote builds in B15783: Diff 16065.Feb 24 2021, 7:35 PM
Nescio requested review of this revision.Feb 24 2021, 7:35 PM
borg- added a subscriber: borg-.Feb 24 2021, 8:55 PM

I haven't played with mauryans or against, but I can't say if I will be op or not, although I'm almost sure not. However, the current health and attack are bad. The attack must be the same as other archers and the health must be greater than the cavalry, so this patch seems good to me.
The cost I would keep as is or 150 food 100 wood.

wraitii added a subscriber: wraitii.Feb 24 2021, 9:13 PM
In D3599#156997, @borg- wrote:

I haven't played with mauryans or against, but I can't say if I will be op or not, although I'm almost sure not.

If possible, I'd like you to check. Having to build ele stables is a fair drawback, but they are _strong_ units.

Having them take 2/3 pop would make sense IMO given how bulky they are.

I'm not sure about the HP increase - I think they also have higher armor - need to check consistency with other eles and with cav.

Nescio added a comment.Feb 24 2021, 9:36 PM

I'm not sure about the HP increase - I think they also have higher armor - need to check consistency with other eles and with cav.

Health and resistances:

basic infantry             :  50 ;  1 ,  1 , 10
basic infantry spearman    : 100 ;  5 ,  5 , 15
basic cavalry archer       : 100 ;  3 ,  1 , 15
basic cavalry spearman     : 160 ;  4 ,  3 , 15
elephant archer            : 200 ;  4 ,  3 , 15

champion infantry archer   : 120 ;  3 ,  3 , 20
champion infantry spearman : 200 ;  8 ,  8 , 20
champion cavalry archer    : 240 ;  5 ,  3 , 20
champion cavalry spearman  : 300 ;  8 ,  7 , 20
champion elephant          : 750 ; 10 , 10 , 20
Nescio added a comment.Feb 24 2021, 9:46 PM
In D3599#157026, @wraitii wrote:
In D3599#156997, @borg- wrote:

Having to build ele stables is a fair drawback, but they are _strong_ units.
Having them take 2/3 pop would make sense IMO given how bulky they are.
I'm not sure about the HP increase - I think they also have higher armor - need to check consistency with other eles and with cav.

−50% damage with +50% health makes them effectively 25% weaker (0.5×1.5=0.75).
One should also keep in mind elephants can't gather and cavalry moves much faster.

borg- added a comment.EditedFeb 24 2021, 9:49 PM

I will test it, but being a strong unit is not enough for a nerf. They are relatively expensive and need elephant stables, so it is just that they are strong, what cannot be op, enough to win all games, like slings in the alpha23 for example.

borg- added a comment.Feb 25 2021, 1:46 PM

After some tests, the attack is really very strong.
It is not an op unit because they are slow and expensive (champions can easily kill for example), but the patch is very valid for me.

wraitii added a comment.Feb 25 2021, 2:34 PM
In D3599#157033, @Nescio wrote:

I'm not sure about the HP increase - I think they also have higher armor - need to check consistency with other eles and with cav.

Health and resistances:

basic infantry             :  50 ;  1 ,  1 , 10
basic infantry spearman    : 100 ;  5 ,  5 , 15
basic cavalry archer       : 100 ;  3 ,  1 , 15
basic cavalry spearman     : 160 ;  4 ,  3 , 15
elephant archer            : 200 ;  4 ,  3 , 15

champion infantry archer   : 120 ;  3 ,  3 , 20
champion infantry spearman : 200 ;  8 ,  8 , 20
champion cavalry archer    : 240 ;  5 ,  3 , 20
champion cavalry spearman  : 300 ;  8 ,  7 , 20
champion elephant          : 750 ; 10 , 10 , 20

Unrelated, but are you up to make a "normalise armour" path? It makes little sense to have 8/8 armour and 200HP vs 1/1armour and 400HP (or the correct value). IMO we should reset all units to 1/1 (or even 0/0) armour and just adjust either stat where they're supposed to be stronger, and adjust HP.

Freagarach added a subscriber: Freagarach.Feb 25 2021, 2:40 PM

(@wraitii Please mind the effect this has on poison/fire damages.)

Nescio added a comment.Feb 25 2021, 3:07 PM

Unrelated, but are you up to make a "normalise armour" path?

Yes, I am; I was actually planning on that for A25 anyway. D3397/rP24689 did it for animals, D2956 does is for ships, and D3600 does it for foundations. Once that one is committed I intend to standardize structure resistances; soldiers can follow later.
As for elephant archers, 300 + 4,3,15 is about the same as 400 + 1,1,12; I could include that here, if you like.

(@wraitii Please mind the effect this has on poison/fire damages.)

I don't think the poison (Mauryan maiden archer) and fire (Iberian champion cavalry) damages are particularly balanced right now.

borg- accepted this revision.Mar 5 2021, 12:11 PM
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Mar 5 2021, 12:11 PM
wraitii added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 4:49 PM

I think it would be good to give them 2 pop. They have a lot of HP still. Rest is generally fine by me.

In D3599#157101, @Nescio wrote:

As for elephant archers, 300 + 4,3,15 is about the same as 400 + 1,1,12; I could include that here, if you like.

No need then, do it alongside other units I think.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 16489.Mar 15 2021, 5:10 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio removed a reviewer: borg-.
  • population to 2, per @wraitii
  • lower resistance, health to 400 to compensate
  • lower experience
This revision now requires review to proceed.Mar 15 2021, 5:10 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Mar 15 2021, 5:10 PM
Vulcan added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 5:15 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Debug: 
Microsoft (R) Build Engine version 15.9.21+g9802d43bc3 for .NET Framework
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Release: 
Microsoft (R) Build Engine version 15.9.21+g9802d43bc3 for .NET Framework
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/4662/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 5:33 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: object file (../../../libraries/osx/fmt/lib/libfmt.a(format.cc.o)) was built for newer OSX version (10.13) than being linked (10.12)
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
builderr-release-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenGL.framework/OpenGL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Security.framework/Security are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//OpenAL.framework/OpenAL are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: object file (../../../libraries/osx/fmt/lib/libfmt.a(format.cc.o)) was built for newer OSX version (10.13) than being linked (10.12)
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/3566/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 5:35 PM

Build is unstable, some tests have failed - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/5247/display/redirect

Harbormaster completed remote builds in B16181: Diff 16489.Mar 15 2021, 5:35 PM
borg- added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 6:04 PM

So +10 + 10 + 20 and +1 +1 +2?

Nescio added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 6:30 PM

If you mean how easily elephant archers can be killed compared to champion elephants, a difference of 9 resistance levels corresponds to a factor 2.581× in health, i.e. 825 health of a champion elephant is worth 2130 health of b/a/e archers (with this patch elephant archers have the same resistances as ranged infantry or cavalry).

borg- added a comment.Mar 15 2021, 6:41 PM

Oh Sorry wrong diff

Edwarf added a subscriber: Edwarf.Mar 22 2021, 5:51 PM
Edwarf added a comment.Mar 23 2021, 5:34 PM

Hello,

Can i give you my opinion ?

Elephant archer is a long range unit, slow, fat and clumsy.
They can't be massed, they take too much space, they block each other, it's hard for them to get to the enemy when some already started to shoot.
They can't be micro properly because they are slow an clumsy.
This unit is reachable late on the game which mean the scenario 1 unit vs 1 elephant archer will almost never appears.
It is not working as a single unit army compsition, other unit are mandatory in order to make this unit viable.
Melee unit shoud be used to tank damage.

Current elephant archer proposition :
Stats : 7 pierce damage 400Hp 1/1/10 (Hack/Pierce/Crush) resistance
Cost : 200 wood 50 food 2 population

The most important caracteristic for this units is its damage.
if you can manage to protect your ranged units with melee units, 2 simple archer are better and cheaper than an elephant archer.
In my opinion the 2 population cost is too much for this stats change.

I have 3 propositions for this unit :

1- Keep the current proposition but reduce the population cost to 1.

2- Keep the current proposition but add 1 arrow shooted per rank. It is an expensive investment that can be worthy if you can keep your elephant alive.

3- Make it a melee unit with some hack/pierce damage, with no ranks but can be garrisonned with archers (3 max) giving them range bonus like A24 outpost.

borg- added a comment.Mar 23 2021, 5:42 PM
In D3599#162552, @Edwarf wrote:

Hello,

Can i give you my opinion ?

Elephant archer is a long range unit, slow, fat and clumsy.
They can't be massed, they take too much space, they block each other, it's hard for them to get to the enemy when some already started to shoot.
They can't be micro properly because they are slow an clumsy.
This unit is reachable late on the game which mean the scenario 1 unit vs 1 elephant archer will almost never appears.
It is not working as a single unit army compsition, other unit are mandatory in order to make this unit viable.
Melee unit shoud be used to tank damage.

Current elephant archer proposition :
Stats : 7 pierce damage 400Hp 1/1/10 (Hack/Pierce/Crush) resistance
Cost : 200 wood 50 food 2 population

The most important caracteristic for this units is its damage.
if you can manage to protect your ranged units with melee units, 2 simple archer are better and cheaper than an elephant archer.
In my opinion the 2 population cost is too much for this stats change.

I have 3 propositions for this unit :

1- Keep the current proposition but reduce the population cost to 1.

2- Keep the current proposition but add 1 arrow shooted per rank. It is an expensive investment that can be worthy if you can keep your elephant alive.

3- Make it a melee unit with some hack/pierce damage, with no ranks but can be garrisonned with archers (3 max) giving them range bonus like A24 outpost.

Of course, your opinion is always welcome.

For me Proposition 2 is what I always wanted for elephant archers, but I don't know if it is possible in the code to add an arrow.

Nescio added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 12:18 PM
  1. The higher population was added at the explicit request of @wraitii. I don't particularly care either way. Elephant archers are significantly harder to kill than other basic archers on the one hand, on the other hand, they're less dangerous than champion cavalry.
  2. That's actually possible by using <BuildingAI>; cf. ships. The downside is that they will then shoot at any enemy target within range, unlike other soldiers, which aim at only one target (the one you order them to or the nearest).
  3. Having visible slots (“turret points”; cf. walls) on movable units is my preferred solution too. It would also be useful for chariots and ships. However, right now it isn't possible; it requires both code and new animations.
Freagarach added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 12:52 PM

IIRC One can give units with BuildingAI a target for BuildingAI? In contrast with structures with BuildingAI.
But yes, turrets would be nice.

Nescio added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 1:17 PM

Yes, one can select a target, however, that doesn't affect additional arrows, though. Try it yourself (e.g. with a siege tower).

borg- added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 2:11 PM

As it is not possible to do this correctly now, we can add more health by rank, +50 health per new archer/rank.

Nescio added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 2:33 PM

Even more health? Each rank already adds 25%, which means basic elephants have 400, advanced 500, elite 625.

borg- added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 2:41 PM
In D3599#162673, @Nescio wrote:

Even more health? Each rank already adds 25%, which means basic elephants have 400, advanced 500, elite 625.

I didn't remember that I already added health, sorry.

Freagarach added a comment.Mar 24 2021, 4:10 PM
In D3599#162667, @Nescio wrote:

Yes, one can select a target, however, that doesn't affect additional arrows, though. Try it yourself (e.g. with a siege tower).

Not noticable, no, you're right. It just adds that target to list of targets it already has.

Edwarf added a comment.Mar 25 2021, 2:49 PM
In D3599#162643, @Nescio wrote:
  1. That's actually possible by using <BuildingAI>; cf. ships. The downside is that they will then shoot at any enemy target within range, unlike other soldiers, which aim at only one target (the one you order them to or the nearest).

In this case will they attack only units or buildings aswell, ?
Also, spreading the arrow over all ennemy target can be very strong because there is less overkill (that's why defensive building are very strong)

chrstgtr added a subscriber: chrstgtr.Mar 27 2021, 6:19 AM
In D3599#162553, @borg- wrote:
In D3599#162552, @Edwarf wrote:

Hello,

Can i give you my opinion ?

Elephant archer is a long range unit, slow, fat and clumsy.
They can't be massed, they take too much space, they block each other, it's hard for them to get to the enemy when some already started to shoot.
They can't be micro properly because they are slow an clumsy.
This unit is reachable late on the game which mean the scenario 1 unit vs 1 elephant archer will almost never appears.
It is not working as a single unit army compsition, other unit are mandatory in order to make this unit viable.
Melee unit shoud be used to tank damage.

Current elephant archer proposition :
Stats : 7 pierce damage 400Hp 1/1/10 (Hack/Pierce/Crush) resistance
Cost : 200 wood 50 food 2 population

The most important caracteristic for this units is its damage.
if you can manage to protect your ranged units with melee units, 2 simple archer are better and cheaper than an elephant archer.
In my opinion the 2 population cost is too much for this stats change.

I have 3 propositions for this unit :

1- Keep the current proposition but reduce the population cost to 1.

2- Keep the current proposition but add 1 arrow shooted per rank. It is an expensive investment that can be worthy if you can keep your elephant alive.

3- Make it a melee unit with some hack/pierce damage, with no ranks but can be garrisonned with archers (3 max) giving them range bonus like A24 outpost.

Of course, your opinion is always welcome.

For me Proposition 2 is what I always wanted for elephant archers, but I don't know if it is possible in the code to add an arrow.

Chiming in to support prop. 2 as well.

In D3599#162553, @borg- wrote:
In D3599#162552, @Edwarf wrote:

Hello,

Can i give you my opinion ?

Elephant archer is a long range unit, slow, fat and clumsy.
They can't be massed, they take too much space, they block each other, it's hard for them to get to the enemy when some already started to shoot.
They can't be micro properly because they are slow an clumsy.
This unit is reachable late on the game which mean the scenario 1 unit vs 1 elephant archer will almost never appears.
It is not working as a single unit army compsition, other unit are mandatory in order to make this unit viable.
Melee unit shoud be used to tank damage.

Current elephant archer proposition :
Stats : 7 pierce damage 400Hp 1/1/10 (Hack/Pierce/Crush) resistance
Cost : 200 wood 50 food 2 population

The most important caracteristic for this units is its damage.
if you can manage to protect your ranged units with melee units, 2 simple archer are better and cheaper than an elephant archer.
In my opinion the 2 population cost is too much for this stats change.

I have 3 propositions for this unit :

1- Keep the current proposition but reduce the population cost to 1.

2- Keep the current proposition but add 1 arrow shooted per rank. It is an expensive investment that can be worthy if you can keep your elephant alive.

3- Make it a melee unit with some hack/pierce damage, with no ranks but can be garrisonned with archers (3 max) giving them range bonus like A24 outpost.

Of course, your opinion is always welcome.

For me Proposition 2 is what I always wanted for elephant archers, but I don't know if it is possible in the code to add an arrow.

Adding another vote in favor of Edwarf's option 2 to provide additional arrows per rank. Even if it the additional arrows don't function like normal units, I still think this is the best option. It would essentially make ele archers like siege towers except cheaper, more vulnerable, and less deadly. I think this would be a nice addition to the game, especially because this will be the one unit that is truly best used when leveled up.

If we can't do option 2 then I would like the current propal with a slightly stronger attack (it makes sense that someone standing on an ele while someone else steers the ele would be more effective than someone horseback that steer the cav in addition to shooting the arrows) and 1 pop cost. Although it has not been implemented yet, it seems like we will provide spear/pike with a counter against ele (https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/37135-bring-back-a23/?do=findComment&comment=419882). This would make archer ele very expensive and very vulnerable while keeping their attack the same as a normal inf unit. Even if this counter isn't implemented archer ele will still be a slow, hard to mass unit that does the same damage of quicker, easier to match inf archers.

Nescio added a comment.Mar 27 2021, 11:56 AM
In D3599#162861, @Edwarf wrote:

In this case will they attack only units or buildings aswell, ?
Also, spreading the arrow over all ennemy target can be very strong because there is less overkill (that's why defensive building are very strong)

That's simply not true: defensive structures are very strong because they can adsorb a lot of damage, not because they have BuildingAI.
BuildingAI is generally a disadvantage: when facing a group of enemies, BuildingAI results in shooting one arrow at the first target within range, the second arrrow at the second target, the next at the next, and so forth. In contrast, UnitAI means the entity focuses on a single target and continues shooting at it until the target is destroyed (or out of reach and out of sight, or changes ownership, or the attacker gets a different order), before moving on to another target. With each target killed the enemy becomes less dangerous, whereas with BuildingAI, all targets are damaged a bit, but none are quickly killed, thus the enemy continues to inflict full damage for much longer.

In D3599#163294, @chrstgtr wrote:

If we can't do option 2

It's doable (and not difficult); the question is whether it's desirable.

Freagarach added a comment.Apr 1 2021, 7:19 AM
In D3599#162553, @borg- wrote:

For me Proposition 2 is what I always wanted for elephant archers, but I don't know if it is possible in the code to add an arrow.


(Just note the weirdness in the units "standing" in the elephant.)

wraitii added a comment.May 24 2021, 3:49 PM

I believe we need a change of some kind for elephant archers in A25, I would be OK with merging this as is (I think it makes them a bit underpowered, but I prefer that to the opposite).

I'm not sure about the turrets at the moment...

marder added a subscriber: marder.May 24 2021, 5:04 PM

I like the idea of the turrets, but without a "sitting" animation or a platform where the archers can stand upon, it looks very unfinished.
Regarding elephant archers in general: I mostly agree with @Edwarf. They are clumsy, slower than regular archers and expensive (+ you need a stable), which is why I don't think they need to be nerfed as much as in this patch, but I haven't used them enough to make a better suggestion.

ValihrAnt added a subscriber: ValihrAnt.Jun 5 2021, 5:39 PM

Don't really feel like they need a change. They're a difficult and slow unit to mass but if you do manage it they're also strong enough to make it worthwhile.
I feel like these changes will make them quite weak and remove some identity. Going from a unit that's threatening to a unit you try to target last as they're so tanky. Also, this gives them less armor than the worker elephant.

wraitii added a comment.Jun 5 2021, 6:10 PM

I think I'll just merge the population change - it's not a huge nerf if you try to amass them IMO, but it does make it harder to reach "impossible death ball" level.

Kate added a subscriber: Kate.Jun 7 2021, 1:05 PM

I agree with these changes, but why has it failed to build?

Stan added a subscriber: Stan.Jun 7 2021, 1:12 PM
In D3599#172931, @marder wrote:

I like the idea of the turrets, but without a "sitting" animation or a platform where the archers can stand upon, it looks very unfinished.

Sadly there is no way currently to make such an animation. We could consider having N NE E SE S SW W NW anims, but that might still look a bit weird.

In D3599#175910, @Kate wrote:

I agree with these changes, but why has it failed to build?

Sometimes the linux CI fails because it runs out of memory. You can accept this patch if you agree with it.

wraitii mentioned this in rP25755: Make elephant archers cost 2 population..Jun 9 2021, 8:40 AM

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binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_unit_elephant.xml

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binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_unit_elephant_archer.xml

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