In D2846#123051, @Nescio wrote:

300 food + 300 metal looks a bit unimpressive. What happened to the 500 food + 200 metal suggested earlier?

300 food + 300 metal looks a bit unimpressive. What happened to the 500 food + 200 metal suggested earlier?

The changes look good and make sense, the gameplay balance is not really altered, +10% attack is roughly equivalent to +1 armour level.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Fixed version. The issue was that setting the proxy private value and using JS_SEtPrivate isn't equivalent.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Can you add upgrade as well? (Used in HC)

Rebase following rP23807

Citizen cavalry sword 30 wood 20 metal --> 40 wood 10 metal, same to loot. Same to infantry sword.
Champion cavalry axemen/sword same cost/loot. Cost: -20wood +20metal (than other champions), same to loot.
Champion Infantry axemen/sword same cost/loot. Cost: -15wwood +15metal (than other champions), same to loot.

Correct idendation.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

All perl scripts are converted now. some adjustments on XML parsing too.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Following talks with @Itms, rebase this on top of SVN and simplify as much as possible. Use different proxy handlers instead of storing things in GUI.

Champion cavalry with 24 may be a risk (spam late game). What about keep 20 for infantry and 27 for cavalry?

In D2816#122967, @Nescio wrote:

You say about axemen?

No, I mean template_unit_infantry_melee_swordsman.xml ought to cost 30 wood and 20 metal, same as its cavalry counterpart.
And champion axemen −10 wood, +10 metal, champion swordsmen −20 wood, +20 metal, both for infantry and cavalry. At least that would be consistent across the board.

You say about axemen?

No, I mean template_unit_infantry_melee_swordsman.xml ought to cost 30 wood and 20 metal, same as its cavalry counterpart.
And champion axemen −10 wood, +10 metal, champion swordsmen −20 wood, +20 metal, both for infantry and cavalry. At least that would be consistent across the board.

basic cavalry axeman : 40 wood, 10 metal
basic infantry axeman : 40 wood, 10 metal
basic cavalry spearman : 50 wood, 0 metal
basic infantry spearman : 50 wood, 0 metal
basic cavalry swordsman : 30 wood, 20 metal
basic infantry swordsman : 40 wood, 10 metal

The last one looks inconsistent, though. Maybe something for a future patch? Or fix it here.

Cavalry sword Citizen cost +gold and -wood than infantry sword. So why not champ too?

You're right, it does, I just checked:

basic cavalry axeman     : 40 wood, 10 metal
basic infantry axeman    : 40 wood, 10 metal
basic cavalry spearman   : 50 wood, 0 metal
basic infantry spearman  : 50 wood, 0 metal
basic cavalry swordsman  : 30 wood, 20 metal
basic infantry swordsman : 40 wood, 10 metal

The last one looks inconsistent, though. Maybe something for a future patch? Or fix it here.

In D2816#122943, @Nescio wrote:

Unfortunately I still don't understand why cavalry axemen and swordsmen have 20 but infantry only 10. Could you explain your reasoning in more detail?

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

• Include champion training time changes.
• Remove some unnecessary population lines.

@Nescio with new women value, maybe you need check women trained on houses.

Those have 30, which is so high I don't think it needs to be changed.

Unfortunately I still don't understand why cavalry axemen and swordsmen have 20 but infantry only 10. Could you explain your reasoning in more detail?
Furthermore, whilst I agree with the new resource totals (infantry, cavalry, elephant 220, 330, 500 instead of 300, 450, 500), how did you arrive at the individual resource numbers?

I am removing the changes in infantry and cavalry training time. D2866 if accepted, it should change the values of citizens, so it is possible that I will have to change the value of champions soon again, so I will keep it as it is for now.

You're right, it's better to do all training times in a single place.

Up patch

Up patch.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Rebased.

<Resistance>
  <Foundation>
    <Damage>
      <AnyName> (e.g shield)
        <Armor>
          <Hack>number</Hack>
          ...
        <Armor>
        <BlockChance> number</BlockChance>
        etc. whatever other stuff we want to set here
      </AnyName>
    </Damage>
    <Capture>
      <AnyName>
        <Armor>number<Armor>
        <Health>
          <MinMultiplier>0.1</MinMultiplier> (corresponds to the health dependence of capture)
        </Health>
        etc. whatever other stuff we want to set here
      </AnyName>
    </Capture>
    ...
</Resistance>

Is what you propose? With this schema, if one wants to have a shield that has both damage resistance and capture resistance, one needs to match the anyname nodes, which looks modder-unfriendly to me?
What about:

<Resistance>
  <Foundation>
    <AnyName> (e.g shield)
      <Damage>
        <Armor>
          <Hack>number</Hack>
          ...
        <Armor>
        <BlockChance> number</BlockChance>
        etc. whatever other stuff we want to set here
      </Damage>
      <Capture>
        <Armor>number<Armor>
        <Health>
          <MinMultiplier>0.1</MinMultiplier> (corresponds to the health dependence of capture)
        </Health>
        etc. whatever other stuff we want to set here
      </Capture>
      ...
    </AnyName>
    ...
  </Foundation>
  ...
</Resistance>

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Thanks for the extensive testing @Feldfeld, I will think about your comments and see if some things can be fixed somehow (no promises here). Regarding formation dance issue: I know this patch does not fix it, but (correct me if I am wrong) this dance can only be achieved with a patrol command. So that is relatively easy to fix, without major gameplay influence one can simply disallow patrol commands on those short distances).
If you happen to have the replay from that video around, I did be interested (saves me recreating it ;) )

How hard would it be to implement proper turning from here? I mean one always needs turn time to change the facing. I tested some by removing the if (m_RotateTime) to make entities rotate whenever performing a move and it wasn't too bad IMHO.

In D2816#122918, @Nescio wrote:

Also, currently champion elephants have the same training time as cavalry (30), but they're far more powerful. Should that be changed too (e.g. to 36)?

@Nescio with new women value, maybe you need check women trained on houses.

Seems good, would be nice @Feldfeld opnion.

Also, currently champion elephants have the same training time as cavalry (30), but they're far more powerful. Should that be changed too (e.g. to 36)?

• new valus per @borg-

In D2866#122906, @Nescio wrote:

So which option do you prefer?

                A    B    C
female   :  8 →  9 |  8 |  9
infantry : 10 → 12 | 12 | 12
cavalry  : 15 → 18 | 16 | 15
healer   :  8 → 15 | 20 | 18

Oh meu nas about amexman, os a 2 for cav and 1 inf

Could you rephrase that in proper English? I have no idea what it means exactly.

In D2816#122902, @Nescio wrote:

• This patch changes cavalry costs to 150 food + 80 wood + 100 metal and infantry costs to 70 food + 70 wood + 80 metal, i.e. cavalry have a difference between wood and metal of 20, infantry of 10, which seems a bit inconsistent. Perhaps tweak the latter to 80 + 60 + 80?
• The cavalry axeman has +10 wood and −10 metal, but the infantry axeman +20, −20. Is that intentional?
• The cavalry swordsman has −20 wood and +20 metal, but the infantry swordsman −10, +10. Is that intentional?

So which option do you prefer?

                A    B    C
female   :  8 →  9 |  8 |  9
infantry : 10 → 12 | 12 | 12
cavalry  : 15 → 18 | 16 | 15
healer   :  8 → 15 | 20 | 18

For the record, champion cavalry has 50% more training time than their infantry counterparts, though (D2816).

All three stoa champions are historically problematic for athen and spart, as are all hall units for pers (D2742). I recommend simply disabling them. Future differentials can introduce new things for these civs, but that's beyond the scope of this patch.

Yes, I did, and no, it isn't. Only entities with <Rank>Elite</Rank> are affected.

• This patch changes cavalry costs to 150 food + 80 wood + 100 metal and infantry costs to 70 food + 70 wood + 80 metal, i.e. cavalry have a difference between wood and metal of 20, infantry of 10, which seems a bit inconsistent. Perhaps tweak the latter to 80 + 60 + 80?
• The cavalry axeman has +10 wood and −10 metal, but the infantry axeman +20, −20. Is that intentional?
• The cavalry swordsman has −20 wood and +20 metal, but the infantry swordsman −10, +10. Is that intentional?

@Nescio look mace silver shields, is a elite rank.

Given that the Mauryas are the only ones who can build an elephant stable, we could address that by changing the <BatchTimeModifier> from 0.7 to 0.8.

Set "unit" can be a problem chasing ships, no?

Given that entities look for the nearest entity, and ships have a much larger footprint, i.e. their centre is farther away, I don't expect it'll be much of a problem. But you can replace Unit with Unit+!Ship, if you like.

Lubuntu 18:

libnvtt-dev/bionic,now 2.0.8-1+dfsg-8.1 amd64 [installed]
  NVIDIA Texture Tools (Header)

As reported on Trac, the patch works for me, I have no news of GunChleoc. If someone with an Ubuntu, or derived, could test this... I am also interested in users of various distributions where the system nvtt creates the issue.

Grep says it's complete. Playtesting reveals no errors.

The values are good for "normal" games, my only doubt are dm games.

Hi, I tried this path, I saw something interesting in my processor, it was always in 20% and this happen only starting.

Up patch.

In D2856#122849, @Nescio wrote:

By the way, which do you consider preferable, +10% training time or +10% food cost?

Hmm, I'm not sure this is justifiable. By the time Athens was using Thureophoroi they had been militarily neutered for years. Thorakites for Sparta has no historical justification either, unfortunately. Sparta has Skiritai swordsdudes, so that's good enough for ram countering. Athens has the Marine sword dude.

Seems much better for future patchs.

In D2863#122792, @borg- wrote:

I would keep thureophoros for athen and thorakites for sparta and cloak for mace.

One type unit per civ.

I'm not sure if it solves the spam problem, it seems to me that it just slow. I think that only the infantry and healer should increase training time, keeping the rest as it is. this would make the cavalry more effective and less penalized at the start of the game if a rush is unsuccessful. Increase a distance between women and infantry makes the player choose between more security and less economy, training soldiers, or vulnerability and more economy choosing women.

After some tests the proposed values seems better than current values.

Will give it another look tomorrow and commit it after that.

@Nescio tnx update!!!

When running the script on SVN I get