HomeWildfire Games

Add a repair time tooltip
Concern RaisedrP21121

Description

Add a repair time tooltip

Differential Revision: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D573
Reviewed by: bb

Details

Auditors
mimo
Committed
templeFeb 6 2018, 8:31 PM
Reviewer
bb
Differential Revision
D573: Add a repair time tooltip
Parents
rP21120: Add a new stonequary actor using unused dae files by merging them and cleaning.
Branches
Unknown
Tags
Unknown
Build Status
Buildable 4828
Build 8376: Post-Commit Build

Event Timeline

mimo raised a concern with this commit.Mar 10 2018, 10:54 AM
mimo added a subscriber: mimo.

When a field has not 100% health, we can no more see the number of gatherers, even when no builders because the test on numBuilders > 0 has been removed from line 247.

By the way, am i the only one to prefer the previous way to display ths builder stats? usually, i'm more interested by how much builders i have, rather that the time left. And when interested by the time left, it is to know how much i would gain by adding a new builder. So i think having the time left displayed in the panel and the builder numbers and the modified time in the tooltip is a poor usability choice. I'd rather have (as before) the builder's number displayed in the panel, and both times in the tooltip.

That would have the advantage to allow a simple fix of this concern: if we give a different icon for gatherers (production icon for example), we could display both the number of builders and gatherers when both are present (like for fields) which is currently impossible.

This commit now has outstanding concerns.Mar 10 2018, 10:54 AM
elexis added a subscriber: elexis.Mar 10 2018, 11:47 AM

I was wondering too if it's not a more frequent use case to know the current number of builders rather than the time gained by adding more, but no strong opinion. (Displaying both simultaneously would cover all cases, but probably not enough space for that.)

In rP21121#29216, @mimo wrote:

When a field has not 100% health, we can no more see the number of gatherers, even when no builders because the test on numBuilders > 0 has been removed from line 247.

That was noticed, but you can give arguments both ways, whether the repair status or resource status should have precedence, and it was only relevant to fields (besides mods of course), so I said meh.

if we give a different icon for gatherers (production icon for example)

That's annoyed me for a while, I don't know why it never occurred to me that it could be changed.

we could display both the number of builders and gatherers when both are present (like for fields) which is currently impossible.

There's still only one spot though? It doesn't look like we can fit two icons + text in that space.

By the way, am i the only one to prefer the previous way to display ths builder stats? usually, i'm more interested by how much builders i have, rather that the time left. And when interested by the time left, it is to know how much i would gain by adding a new builder. So i think having the time left displayed in the panel and the builder numbers and the modified time in the tooltip is a poor usability choice. I'd rather have (as before) the builder's number displayed in the panel, and both times in the tooltip.

I only play competitive multiplayer and there time is much more important, for planning things or just knowing when I can come back to grab the builders to do another task. The second or two to hover over an icon to read a tooltip is time I don't have. Sometimes I care that I only have one builder (for efficiency), but there I don't need a tooltip to tell me whether I have one or two or three builders. (And then what's the difference between having ten builders and having eleven? My first patch ever (D521) was fixing a bug where adding another builder actually increased the build time!)

The second or two to hover over an icon to read a tooltip is time I don't have.

Well that's out argument too. More than costing time, it's also annoying to find the exact mouse position.
Looking at the GUI can reveal immediately if there are 5 or 15 units repairing. If things are crowded, one has to count with the naked eye or do the tooltip thing.
This becomes even more important if there is more than one building constructed / repaired simultaneously.
Having both count and countdown simultaneously would be ideal. Sure we can't fit those 2 labels above each other in front of the icon?
Maybe move things few pixels around?

mimo added a comment.Mar 10 2018, 4:09 PM
In rP21121#29216, @mimo wrote:

When a field has not 100% health, we can no more see the number of gatherers, even when no builders because the test on numBuilders > 0 has been removed from line 247.

That was noticed, but you can give arguments both ways, whether the repair status or resource status should have precedence, and it was only relevant to fields (besides mods of course), so I said meh.

No, that's inambiguous in the case of interest, i.e. when you have no builders, only gatherers. So it's not meh, but something to fix.

if we give a different icon for gatherers (production icon for example)

That's annoyed me for a while, I don't know why it never occurred to me that it could be changed.

we could display both the number of builders and gatherers when both are present (like for fields) which is currently impossible.

There's still only one spot though? It doesn't look like we can fit two icons + text in that space.

By the way, am i the only one to prefer the previous way to display ths builder stats? usually, i'm more interested by how much builders i have, rather that the time left. And when interested by the time left, it is to know how much i would gain by adding a new builder. So i think having the time left displayed in the panel and the builder numbers and the modified time in the tooltip is a poor usability choice. I'd rather have (as before) the builder's number displayed in the panel, and both times in the tooltip.

I only play competitive multiplayer and there time is much more important, for planning things or just knowing when I can come back to grab the builders to do another task. The second or two to hover over an icon to read a tooltip is time I don't have. Sometimes I care that I only have one builder (for efficiency), but there I don't need a tooltip to tell me whether I have one or two or three builders. (And then what's the difference between having ten builders and having eleven? My first patch ever (D521) was fixing a bug where adding another builder actually increased the build time!)

If competitive multiplayer needs some different display, then you should add an option which would switch from one to the other. But changing what is find useful for the majority of players because a handful of competitive gamers is not the right thing to do to me. The typical use case for me is when your cc is attacked and you have some repairers, you want to know how many of them are still alived or if you should add some, and its not easy nor desirable to count in the melee. But usually, i just want to know quicly how many builders i have just by selecting a building to know if i should add some or not, and the only case where i care about the time, i need to know by how much i would improve it when adding one builder, so i anyway need to hover the tooltip. So the current choice does not help.

Futhermore usually, competitive players don't have to read such information, they are used to it and feel all stats after some time. Such displays are mainly for beginners/casual players who play for fun, and all these timers that are added now everywhere may give them a feeling of stress, as is every second was important, while that is not (and should not) be what is felt during such a game.

In rP21121#29250, @mimo wrote:
In rP21121#29216, @mimo wrote:

When a field has not 100% health, we can no more see the number of gatherers, even when no builders because the test on numBuilders > 0 has been removed from line 247.

That was noticed, but you can give arguments both ways, whether the repair status or resource status should have precedence, and it was only relevant to fields (besides mods of course), so I said meh.

No, that's inambiguous in the case of interest, i.e. when you have no builders, only gatherers. So it's not meh, but something to fix.

I'm not saying it's not something to "fix", I'm explaining the situation. There's two things that should be displayed but right now we only show one of them at a time. In a22 the repair status had precedence, so if you were repairing and gathering from a field at the same time, it would show the repairer number rather than the gatherer number. In svn we also show the repair icon when there's no builders but the structure is at less than 100% health, so that's what's done with the field here.

Should the gatherers have precedence instead? Should there be a special case when no repairers to instead show the gatherers? Should we try to find a way to show both?
I'd be fine with making the gatherers have precedence, if that's an acceptable solution to you.

But changing what is find useful for the majority of players because a handful of competitive gamers is not the right thing to do to me. The typical use case for me is when your cc is attacked and you have some repairers, you want to know how many of them are still alived or if you should add some, and its not easy nor desirable to count in the melee. But usually, i just want to know quicly how many builders i have just by selecting a building to know if i should add some or not, and the only case where i care about the time, i need to know by how much i would improve it when adding one builder, so i anyway need to hover the tooltip. So the current choice does not help.

It's still strange to me, that you care how many are working on a building but you don't care how long it takes them to finish? Why add another repairer if you don't care when it gets done? And in a battle wouldn't you try to put as many as possible on repair? But whatever.

Futhermore usually, competitive players don't have to read such information, they are used to it and feel all stats after some time.

Time's not something that's easy to feel, that's why I added these countdowns everywhere.

If competitive multiplayer needs some different display, then you should add an option which would switch from one to the other.
Such displays are mainly for beginners/casual players who play for fun, and all these timers that are added now everywhere may give them a feeling of stress, as is every second was important, while that is not (and should not) be what is felt during such a game.

That's fine. And I suggested it in D1300.

mimo added a comment.Mar 10 2018, 5:45 PM

I'm not saying it's not something to "fix", I'm explaining the situation. There's two things that should be displayed but right now we only show one of them at a time. In a22 the repair status had precedence, so if you were repairing and gathering from a field at the same time, it would show the repairer number rather than the gatherer number. In svn we also show the repair icon when there's no builders but the structure is at less than 100% health, so that's what's done with the field here.

Should the gatherers have precedence instead? Should there be a special case when no repairers to instead show the gatherers? Should we try to find a way to show both?
I'd be fine with making the gatherers have precedence, if that's an acceptable solution to you.

The problem is only for fields, and the point is really to display the number of gatherers when no repairers. I had a case where (because of rounding) the health bar was full, and i could not understand why no gatherers were displayed. I had to look at the code to understand, and other people will certainly fill bug reports for that. Then, when we have both (which rarely happen), any choice would be fine. I think previous code had repairer precedence, but both would be ok. Maybe, we could also write it "2 + 2/5" if two repairers and 2 gatherers?

But changing what is find useful for the majority of players because a handful of competitive gamers is not the right thing to do to me. The typical use case for me is when your cc is attacked and you have some repairers, you want to know how many of them are still alived or if you should add some, and its not easy nor desirable to count in the melee. But usually, i just want to know quicly how many builders i have just by selecting a building to know if i should add some or not, and the only case where i care about the time, i need to know by how much i would improve it when adding one builder, so i anyway need to hover the tooltip. So the current choice does not help.

It's still strange to me, that you care how many are working on a building but you don't care how long it takes them to finish? Why add another repairer if you don't care when it gets done? And in a battle wouldn't you try to put as many as possible on repair? But whatever.

Not strange. When you select a structure, you see the health bar changing and you can have a fast estimate of the time needed, so you can adjust it. But most of the time, the limiting factor for me is the number of available repairer, so knowing at once how many we have is the most usefull information.

Futhermore usually, competitive players don't have to read such information, they are used to it and feel all stats after some time.

Time's not something that's easy to feel, that's why I added these countdowns everywhere.

If competitive multiplayer needs some different display, then you should add an option which would switch from one to the other.
Such displays are mainly for beginners/casual players who play for fun, and all these timers that are added now everywhere may give them a feeling of stress, as is every second was important, while that is not (and should not) be what is felt during such a game.

That's fine. And I suggested it in D1300.

Yep, i think we should have an option for two different ways of displaying, depending on the game style. But for for the time being, maybe displaying "0.30 (4)" if you have 4 builders for a remaining 30s would work for everybody?

Freagarach added a subscriber: Freagarach.EditedNov 14 2019, 8:41 PM
In rP21121#29216, @mimo wrote:

When a field has not 100% health, we can no more see the number of gatherers, even when no builders because the test on numBuilders > 0 has been removed from line 247.

It seems that this was the concern? That has been fixed (number of gatherers show even though field is not 100% health). (D1374/rP21502)

In rP21121#29259, @mimo wrote:

But for for the time being, maybe displaying "0.30 (4)" if you have 4 builders for a remaining 30s would work for everybody?

D2425.