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binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/special/spy.xml
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svn:eol-style | null | native \ No newline at end of property |
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> | |||||
<Entity> | |||||
<Cost> | |||||
<Population>0</Population> | |||||
<PopulationBonus>0</PopulationBonus> | |||||
<BuildTime>0</BuildTime> | |||||
<Resources> | |||||
<food>0</food> | |||||
<wood>0</wood> | |||||
<stone>0</stone> | |||||
<metal>2000</metal> | |||||
</Resources> | |||||
elexis: **TODO:** **1500 metal** is **very expensive** and doesn't relate to the gain of the vision… | |||||
Not Done Inline Actionsagreed that it is too expensive. I proposed in the forum to decrease it to 1200, but let's bargain it at 900 (as you propose 600). But anyway, i expect that we will have a balance patch after a bit of testing. mimo: agreed that it is too expensive. I proposed in the forum to decrease it to 1200, but let's… | |||||
Not Done Inline Actions"The details of features should not be dictated by their needs" even more from "lobby fanatics". fatherbushido: "The details of features should not be dictated by their needs" even more from "lobby fanatics". | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsThe cost 600 is still a significantly high, 900 very high and I'm not sure casual or new players have the resources for that. IMO the trailer should show this feature as it will be a highlight of the new alpha and I don't want the majority of players to become disappointed when they notice the cost/use ratio. Maybe @scythetwirler has an opinion about the price? (900 metal for 15 seconds visibility of a trader being proposed) Also fanatic seems to be the right word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person) elexis: The cost 600 is still a significantly high, 900 very high and I'm not sure casual or new… | |||||
Not Done Inline Actions(Yadda yadda, you have misunderstood my point. IMO 1500 metal is too much for all players independent of skill. Competitive players have more metal and might use it more often than newcomers. I have pinged people as I want a discussion, not a dictatation. I think experienced players are more capable to see shortcomings than than inexperienced players. The balancing requirements are mostly the same for all players. Where are those 900 metal coming from? It's a 1/5 metal mine and military units are expensive and mandatory. I don't insist on anything, chose as you wish, I just want to give a recommendation. 900 is much better than 1500 and it opens actual use cases in late game if one has thousands of excess metal in the bank (which is actually more likely for experienced than inexperienced players). (It's nothing emotional, I just think its the truth,, so I feel obliged to state it)) elexis: (Yadda yadda, you have misunderstood my point. IMO 1500 metal is too much for all players… | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsThe use of this feature should stay exceptionnal, not be overused, otherwise it is all the concept of vision which could be distorted. So the price should stay big enough.
That's a bit connected to what i answered to the comment on "following the bribed unit": we do not have to wait to have a fully, complete and well-balanced patch to test a new feature. mimo: The use of this feature should stay exceptionnal, not be overused, otherwise it is all the… | |||||
</Cost> | |||||
<Identity> | |||||
<Civ>gaia</Civ> | |||||
<Classes datatype="tokens">Spy</Classes> | |||||
<GenericName>Spy</GenericName> | |||||
Not Done Inline Actionstodolittle: Afaik this should be a VisibleClass, so that it appears in the selection details, informing players which units can become spies Somewhere there was a list of classes that must be extended iirc elexis: todolittle:
Afaik this should be a VisibleClass, so that it appears in the selection details… | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsIdentity.js elexis: Identity.js | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsNo because no unit will ever have this template. If there is some information to make visible, it is the Bribable one. I will add it in the Trader's VisibleClass template. mimo: No because no unit will ever have this template. If there is some information to make visible… | |||||
<RequiredTechnology>unlock_spies</RequiredTechnology> | |||||
</Identity> | |||||
</Entity> | |||||
Not Done Inline Actionsperhaps useless or making it mandatory? fatherbushido: perhaps useless or making it mandatory? | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsIt's not optional in VisionSharing, so need to have it (or make it optional). usually i prefer non-optional, but no strong opinion. mimo: It's not optional in VisionSharing, so need to have it (or make it optional). usually i prefer… | |||||
Not Done Inline Actionsoops. It's ok then (I was confused with the duration wich was optional). fatherbushido: oops. It's ok then (I was confused with the duration wich was optional). | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsWa never add that entity, it's only here for a data purpose (I mean none of those templates entry will become component). fatherbushido: Wa never add that entity, it's only here for a data purpose (I mean none of those templates… | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsThe main advantage i see with this approach is that we can vary easily the cost or the duration with tech as for any other component. But maybe there is a better way i don't know. mimo: The main advantage i see with this approach is that we can vary easily the cost or the duration… | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsOk, I didn't think of that. fatherbushido: Ok, I didn't think of that. | |||||
Not Done Inline ActionsI'm happy with this approach, personally. Itms: I'm happy with this approach, personally. |
TODO: 1500 metal is very expensive and doesn't relate to the gain of the vision (seen on the screenshot of a moving unupgraded trade cart)
Discussed this feature with some lobby fanatics @borg- @Grugnas and @Hannibal_Barca and they said they likely wouldn't use it even if they had thousands of resources in the bank. Making Citizen Soldiers bribable would be much more useful borg said, which I agree with, but on the other hand I'm perfectly fine with seeing bribable traders in Alpha 22 and if required, change it for Alpha 23.
We have to think about the use case of this feature and that most of the time, we can send in two or three disposable citizen soldier cavalry (100 food 40 wood each) that are likely to survive and reach far into the enemy land (if its not a map whose access is limited by few chokepoints or a fully walled city). If the city is fortified and well defended, cavalry champions (in particular if speed upgraded at the corral) costing 250 food 100 metal may still yield much more vision at a lower price. Even a hero unit costing about 100 food 200 metal could be used.
I propose 600 metal, which is still quite expensive (4 expensive champion or 8 cheap champions or 3 battering rams) and prevents overusage of the tech.