Well, I'm a bit boring when it comes to patterns, I like organized numbers. I had forgotten about the changes I made to immortals, testing the patch, it looks good. Well, I like having the same health and movement speed now. To maintain a standard, also add the -1 pierce resistance and attack from 0.85 to 0.90? This way it's easier to remember, we know that any version has -10% attack, the same health and movement speed. I would like it to be the same resistance too, because it is the same unit, but I don't know if that is possible in terms of balance.

Very cheap for a champion, I don't agree here.
I don't know if I agree with 4 seconds either. That's a problem for the cavalry.

From technology to civ bonus. Movement speed from 10% to 5%

In D5192#221027, @wowgetoffyourcellphone wrote:

I'd prefer to put the build limit back to 1 and make it more special and go for a higher trickle as @chrstgtr shows.

EDIT: And since @real_tabasco_sauce wants to move Immorals to the barracks, you don't need 2 Throne Halls to train champs.

Any other suggestions/opinions?

In D5192#220991, @chrstgtr wrote:

You can only have one of these trickles, right? I don't think it the change from 5s to 10s matters that much. Nor do I think either is op.

So, at 10s that is 2res/sec. which equals about 1.3 men on wood/stone/metal with full eco upgrades.
At 5s that is 4res/sec, which equals about 2.7 men on wood/stone/metal with full eco upgrades.
5 fully upgraded ice houses is 7.5f/sec, which equals about 8.7 women with fully upgraded farms

Under both 10s and 5s, the tech is much weaker than the icehouses.

At 5s, it is equal to giving you about 11.3 extra units. At 10s, it is equal to giving you 10 extra units. That isn't a huge difference, and it's less than .5% of total pop cap.

I say go for 5s to make it more impactful.

My only concern would be giving persians, a 110% pop cap civ even more pop cap. But it is only going to about 115% of normal pop cap. And, it's not like persians run over other civs right now based on numbers alone.

Honestly, I would go for a lower interval than 5s.

I like the idea but it's a bit strong as it is now, maybe increase it to every 10 seconds?

I think maybe as a civ bonus it could be more interesting. what you think guys?

Cost 500f 300m > 300f 100m
Research time 60 > 40
Searchable on CC

add 100 stone cost, food cost 300 > 250

In D5188#220657, @real_tabasco_sauce wrote:

It should be much more expensive. I think 300 food, 300 stone.

All ok?

Well I agree with that, but we have to be careful, we have the centurion's aura, I think 5% is good. The ideal for me would be only in Roman territory, but that is not possible yet.

In D5186#220594, @wowgetoffyourcellphone wrote:

avoid having a broken value, I increased the cost of the healers to 30.

What do you mean, to avoid a broken value? You mean because loot would need to be 2.5 metal? I see no reason not to just round up to 3 in that case and keep the 25 metal cost. But that's up to you. I prefer things like costs to be in multiple of 10 anyway.

-50% attack time but -33% attack damage.

Maybe increase build time?

We already have poisonous arrows represented in champion maiden archers. Maybe give them a bonus against enemy heroes to better represent these important assassinations?
Anyway I would like to see steel arrows as a second technology for archers.

I think we have to work on more choices and less snowballing. Perhaps make this technology (steel Arrows) available to all civs with an archer tradition. Gives a bonus against cavalry and elephants but loses attack speed, or something like this. This makes the player have a choice, if the enemies are using a lot of cavalry, then the choice is good, otherwise not.

My fear is to make archers very strong. Maurya already has additional pop, along with swords and unique technology are super strong, this would make it even stronger. Maybe this technology only for champion archers?

To me it seems like an improvement.

Right way to do this, adding to the template_structure_economic_farmstead instead maury farmstead.

Well the behavior is like this now:

I agree with @real_tabasco_sauce about changing it to 1.5 instead of 2, but I don't see any problems with the pers and kush rams.

Ok for me too. I'm just not sure about the changes in the champion unit. I think this would make more sense in the hoplite champion right?

Name > Temple of isis
Pair techs

In D5169#219731, @chrstgtr wrote:

Idea looks fine to me. But maybe the temple should only be available in p3 with a longer build time. Otherwise, ptol heroes will be available very quickly available. That would undo the move to the fort, which was done to make ptol heroes harder to get.

The patch idea is on the right way. Everything is working correctly. Several adjustments were made over the days to make it easier for new players to understand. The patch is mature now. Although the icon for the long-range legionary unit is missing, we may add this in the future (before the a27 comes out), so this patch is ok with me. Thank you for your efforts on this patch @real_tabasco_sauce

The patch idea is on the right way. Everything is working correctly. Several adjustments were made over the days to make it easier for new players to understand. The patch is mature now. Although the icon for the long-range legionary unit is missing, we may add this in the future (before the a27 comes out), so this patch is ok with me. Thank you for your efforts on this patch @real_tabasco_sauce

Which tooltip would this be for? I'm confused.

I actually think this can be done easily, just change the original tooltip to something like, Train advanced units and siege rams... Can train marian legionaries after research...

Looks good, thanks for that.

I don't know how to do this, but the army camp tooltip needs to be changed. He goes on to say, trains "advanced" units, needs to be changed to elite after reform.

The onager's loot needs to be changed. The legionnaires' loot also seems wrong, it should be something like 7,2 7,2 2,16.

Women warriors, or those who fought on certain occasions, were not uncommon, especially within the reality of the Celtic world. It does not mean that all women were excellent warriors, just as the logic of war, in itself, never guaranteed the complete adherence of men. Those who had the necessary training for such a feat fought and in the case of the Celts, many women were trained, had weapons, trained others to fight and fought, side by side, men against invaders. The objective of the patch is precisely this, to bring women who are a little stronger, but who cannot win fights alone or play a big role in fighting.

The idea is to bring some new gameplay, which is why I think it's more interesting for the village phase.

Must be in the village phase.

Remove wolfhound dog?

"elite melee citizen infantry" better

Wouldn't it be better <Tooltip>Centurions may be promoted from eliter rank level citizen melee infantry, and train from the Fortress after Marian Reforms.</Tooltip> ?

Did this patch take the ptolemy bolt shooter into account? I'm not home right now, so I can't see it, but it shoots faster than the others, maybe it needs individual adjustments.

I say about the icon for the legionary skirmisher unit.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone can you work on this icon soon? If so, then I guess we can wait.

"auraDescription": "Marian Legionaries and Centurions +10% movement speed..", remove one "."

"auraDescription": "Legionaries +10% movement speed.", > "auraDescription": "Marian legionaries and centurions +10% movement speed.",

Legionnaries are still citizen soldiers, so it sounds strange.

Seems good for me.

"description" should be improved too. It seems more like a tooltip than a story. Explain more about the Marian reforms.

I think it's good for now. In the future we can increase the briton stone tower model to appear bigger and stronger to be more realistic with the name of the bonus civ, that way there is no need for a third tower.

"Name": "Great Towers"

@Freagarach we have new model for 3° tower? If so, can I use it instead of the usual tower. If not, can I wait until I have.

Centurion need correct loot too.

1 - the sound is not the standard sound of technologies.
2 - "overlayIcon": "art/textures/ui/session/auras/attack_bonus.png" for centurion aura 2 It's not correct I think, it's an aura of movement speed not attack.
3 - centurion aura 1 should increase the attack of legionary skirmishers as well.
4 - the legionaries loot is not correct compared to the spartan skiritai.
5 - "<Tooltip>Legionaries may be Trained after Researching Marian Reforms</Tooltip>" is missing from the skirmisher, but it must be removed from both, it is not necessary, since we have <Requirements> <Techs datatype="tokens">roman_reforms</Techs>.
6- Infantry Citizen-Soldiers become Marian Legionaries and unlock Centurions and Onagers, but lose access to Italic Heavy Infantry and Spear Cavalry.",
This suggests that the current units become elegionaries, which is not true, I suggest changing.
​7 - Should centurion auras also affect centurion? They can stay behind in the movement and stop affecting the legionaries.

I think the generic name should be Marian Legionary swordmen and Marian Legionary skirmisher.

Tooltip

Should I add it to the tooltip that can come into formation and capture?
If so, can you help me with this? How could I write in the best possible way?
​

For me, the sound is something that bothers me.
I know it's just a detail but I prefer the usual sound.

Is it intentional CC cant train legionaries? Centurion aura movement speed doesn't work. I don't like the sound of the upgrade, I think it should be the default sound

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr @wowgetoffyourcellphone some idea for tech name?

Ok, I'll do one last very detailed test before giving my ok.

I would like to see this in the old Brit longsword champion. I don't know why he was replaced, but I think we can bring him back, more expensive than a conventional infantry champion, but with splash damage. For me it would be really fun to try that.

Infantry Citizen-Soldiers become Legionaries and Legionary Skirmishers > Infantry Citizen-Soldiers become Marian Legionaries. There is no need to specify.
Melee Soldiers +10% attack damage and all Soldiers −25% experience points for promotion." Is Experience interesting? Since legionaries are rank 3? Better to just leave +15% attack?
​

I prefer 10% speed reduction, simple and easy for everyone to understand.

Im fine with -10%

Same for me, I like.

Anything else to add @wowgetoffyourcellphone @chrstgtr @real_tabasco_sauce ?

I would just reduce the attack rate instead of the attack dmg for ranged. This should have the same effect and perhaps help with performance, by having fewer simultaneous objects.

Maybe a little less aggressive for initial tests like +1.20 attack for melee units and 0.90 for ranged? When was armor reduced?

Forgot reference #6745

Well for me the numbers are not important now, we just need to find some historical context to add to some civilizations.

We can maintain the same operation as siege machines, but with a longer firing time. Testing is needed, but I think a bolt tower should be equally strong as a fully garrisoned stone tower. The advantage is that you would have 5 more units available for combat. There may also be an aura for these towers, for each garrisoned unit, the tower fires faster.

I don't think of it as an update to the stone tower, as this could be a problem, taking into account that some technologies would not be effective in these new towers. I think of it as a third buildable tower, with a limit of one and similar ranges to land units.
I don't know which civilization would be historically correct for these towers. I thought at first just for mace, as a civ differentiation, since it is a civilization strong in siege.

This patch still interests me.
Is this tower historically correct for Macedonian?
I think it could be a good step towards differentiation.

Correct minus signal

I don't think it's op. But I would like something more elegant for this aura. He was one of the founders of the empire, I think we can find something more creative than just attack/armor.

Done @wowgetoffyourcellphone

In D5109#218546, @real_tabasco_sauce wrote:

In D5109#218514, @borg- wrote:

Catapult packed model is "empty".

Meaning nothing is in the loaded for the cargo? its an empty wagon?

How it works now:

For me ok.

Temple normal cost

Catapult packed model is "empty".

It was the idea I initially had, to have an elite skmisher unit. To balance the economy, we can give these two units the power to gather res.
​

I think its must be <VisibleClasses datatype= "tokens" > Village -Town </VisibleClasses>

I liked the idea of a commercial camp. Well my idea was to also move the traders to era 1, that way you can start a trade earlier, both for 1v1 and tg. But I think I agree with you, we should go slow with moving things to p1.

OK, I'll make the changes. I thought about bringing the market to phase 1 for Cartago as a civ bonus, this is very justified historically and could create a new variety of gameplay, especially in TG games.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone I know you're very busy, but could you make an icon for this woman with a sword and shield?

@real_tabasco_sauce I can't test it right now, but apartments probably aren't counting as a village structure for phase up.