Currently the Seleucid citizen pikeman is called Chalkaspides (a plural) / Bronze Shield Pikeman (singular). While Macedonians with bronze-shields served in the Antigonid (i.e. Hellenistic Macedonian) army (Polybius 2.66.5), for the Seleucids the term is only attested in the description of Antiochus IV's Daphne procession (Plb 30.25.5), which is rather late; moreover, the status of those bronze-shields is unclear.
Elsewhere pikemen are usually called “Macedonians” (which refers to their equipment and fighting style, not their ethnicity or nationality) or “phalangites” (those fighting in a phalanx).
This patch therefore renames the Seleucid citizen pikeman to ϕαλαγγίτης phalangitēs / phalangite (a proper English word, see here).
While at it, also corrects the names of the Seleucid champion pikeman: “silver shields” is the name of their corps, they fought as phalangites, thus there is no need to specify that.
Details
Ought to be uncontroversial.
Diff Detail
- Repository
- rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
- Lint
Automatic diff as part of commit; lint not applicable. - Unit
Automatic diff as part of commit; unit tests not applicable.
Event Timeline
Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.
Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2130/display/redirect
For the record in DE since @wowgetoffyourcellphone mentionned it
<GenericName>Silver Shield Pikeman</GenericName> <SpecificName>Phalangitès Argyraspis</SpecificName>
<GenericName>Bronze Shield Pikeman</GenericName> <SpecificName>Khalkaspides</SpecificName>
And the initial reference, which if it is wrong must be updated: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Seleucids
While I'm all for fixing names, I'm wondering whether keeping the generic name as is isn't preferable. I think it makes more sense for the player. I don't care much about the specific name though, so as long as it is more accurate it is fine :)
While I'm all for fixing names, I'm wondering whether keeping the generic name as is isn't preferable. I think it makes more sense for the player.
Wouldn't that imply that those troops were actually called “pikemen”? (Which is not exactly true.)
And the initial reference, which if it is wrong must be updated: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Seleucids
Better leave it as is. The design documents are already quite outdated. If one thing is changed, people might assume everything else is correct. I think it's better to view them as what was the original vision for 0 A.D. (i.e. descriptive), not as something 0 A.D. must become (i.e. prescriptive).
Well I always assumed the generic name was to be descriptive for the players, not just a perfect translation. But maybe I'm wrong?
Better leave it as is. The design documents are already quite outdated. If one thing is changed, people might assume everything else is correct. I think it's better to view them as what was the original vision for 0 A.D. (i.e. descriptive), not as something 0 A.D. must become (i.e. prescriptive).
There was some plan to update it, it even got a nice git repository and also a gitbook. I haven't made up my mind about the DD yet. I do think now that updating it might be a bit useless, but I can't get myself to just scrape it as it would be a waste. Of course, if we were to follow it, we'd have to delete civs which is not where I want to go either.
I guess I should find some time to read it entirely at some point and see what's up.
Well I always assumed the generic name was to be descriptive for the players, not just a perfect translation. But maybe I'm wrong?
No, you're not wrong; I believe the generic name is supposed to be the broad English equivalent of the specific name. However, I believe they're simply called silver shields and phalangites in modern literature.
For comparison, athen_cavalry_swordsman_b.xml:
<GenericName>Greek Cavalry</GenericName> <SpecificName>Hippeús</SpecificName>
Can you define modern literature? :)
How about “anything published since Napoleon”?
For what's it worth, here are two paragraph from The Cambridge History of Greek and Roman Warfare (Cambridge 2008) p 334:
and p 427:
Nor did I find occurrences of “pikem” in a few books on the Seleucids I checked, nor on the argyraspides and phalangite Wikipedia articles.
Alright with me then. Name is more accurate, Silver shield on a search engine does indeed inform the player if he needs more info. It's some more work for the translators hopefully not too much.