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[Gameplay - A26] Axe cav buff — Lite — edition
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Authored by real_tabasco_sauce on Jun 3 2022, 6:44 PM.

Details

Summary

People did not actually test my patch and mod for balance. I guess most balancers don't care. To make the changes more agreeable to everyone, I eliminated the hyrcanian cav special unit, reducing the patch to simply improving axe cav in general.

Test Plan

test the patch or the mod for balance.

Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
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Unit
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Event Timeline

real_tabasco_sauce requested review of this revision.Jun 3 2022, 6:44 PM
real_tabasco_sauce created this revision.
borg- added a subscriber: borg-.Jun 24 2022, 12:08 AM

I'm more inclined to accept this patch over the other. I think it's simpler and can also fix the current problem. Ax Cavalry should be stronger against buildings. Currently he can fight some units, but he's not very effective in big fights, and I think that's not wrong, he must have his weak point too. How about just increasing your crush damage to 2.8 or 3.0? It becomes much more effective against buildings and something better against units as well.

I'm fine with this.

I still think Persia should get sword cav, in addition to the other cav types.

chrstgtr accepted this revision.Jul 10 2022, 6:41 AM
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Jul 10 2022, 6:41 AM
borg- added a comment.Jul 10 2022, 2:23 PM

Not yet for me, it still doesn't make sense to increase repeat time attack.

In D4683#201222, @borg- wrote:

Not yet for me, it still doesn't make sense to increase repeat time attack.

That's fair. Maybe keep the repeat time at 1 but make Hack=8.66 and Crush=2.33. That would keep the same DPS as currently proposed but keeps the repeat time the same as before.


On this topic, I think it probably makes sense to make repeat times for all cav standard. Right now, sword is .75, axe is 1, and spear/jav is 1.25. But that is for another patch and beyond the scope here

real_tabasco_sauce added a comment.EditedJul 10 2022, 4:34 PM
In D4683#201222, @borg- wrote:

Not yet for me, it still doesn't make sense to increase repeat time attack.

In D4683#201222, @borg- wrote:

Not yet for me, it still doesn't make sense to increase repeat time attack.

That's fair. Maybe keep the repeat time at 1 but make Hack=8.66 and Crush=2.33. That would keep the same DPS as currently proposed but keeps the repeat time the same as before.


On this topic, I think it probably makes sense to make repeat times for all cav standard. Right now, sword is .75, axe is 1, and spear/jav is 1.25. But that is for another patch and beyond the scope here

This is what I originally considered for axe cav, but I wanted to better distinguish axe cav from sword cav. In other words, the slow repeat time is part of the unit's differentiation. (BTW @chrstgtr this is the template for all axe cav, so now: sword is .75, axe is 1.5, and spear/jav is 1.25.)
Also, a battle axe is generally slower to wield than a typical sword, but should do more damage in one hit than a sword.
Since the unit is weaker, this seems more appropriate for hit and run attacks against fewer, weaker units, without necessarily impacting performance in larger fights.

repeat time is a valuable differentiation tool, look at crossbows vs archers.

@borg- the cavalry have the same crush damage per second, so they are just as good as they were versus buildings. (if not slightly better due to hack increase)

borg- added a comment.Jul 10 2022, 7:58 PM

This version of patch is not to differentiate, it's just a patch to make the unit a little better. We have default on units, changing the movement speed just for that ax unit makes no sense even though i agree that the movement speed should be greater than sword. if there isn't something historically related to this increase, then I don't think it's correct.

In D4683#201225, @borg- wrote:

This version of patch is not to differentiate, it's just a patch to make the unit a little better. We have default on units, changing the movement speed just for that ax unit makes no sense even though i agree that the movement speed should be greater than sword. if there isn't something historically related to this increase, then I don't think it's correct.

The repeat time makes for a very, very slight change. You have said over and over that you don’t want axe cav to be too similar to sword cav. This is a way to do it. You realize that the damage per second is the same either way?

Also, notice that 1.5 IS the new default for all axe cav units .
So I am not changing from the default, this is the new default.