Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7242/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/8331/display/redirect

I would make it an automatic aura for units within X meters. Too many techs is clunky and less likely to be used (a delay or won’t be used or at all).

I could go either way on a cost increase. Although I think healers are already a little too expensive.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean, can you be more specific? my English is bad.

In D5116#217414, @borg- wrote:

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean, can you be more specific? my English is bad.

Your English is better than my Portuguese.

I recommend:

No tech to unlock. Players might be slow to research the tech or never research it at all. And, too many special techs make the game complicated.

Keep cost of druids the same. I think healers are already too expensive.

I think I expressed myself poorly. I mean, giving the druids a aura where it decreases the cost/research time of technologies in general, like each druid -1% cost of technologies, or an same aura (range) for the temple, with the same function.

In D5116#217416, @borg- wrote:

I think I expressed myself poorly. I mean, giving the druids a aura where it decreases the cost/research time of technologies in general, like each druid -1% cost of technologies, or an same aura (range) for the temple, with the same function.

I would think it best to keep this aura simple. I think it would feel unnatural to train the healers just for reduced technology cost. Maybe one interesting option could be to make them available in p1? Or instead give them an attack? I wouldn't do both of those tho.

An attack would remove the power to heal. P1 I think we can give it to another civilization maybe Kushites. I think this aura alone is enough now. Should I put this as a civ bonus?

In D5116#217458, @borg- wrote:

An attack would remove the power to heal. P1 I think we can give it to another civilization maybe Kushites. I think this aura alone is enough now. Should I put this as a civ bonus?

Yeah put it as a civ bonus in celt.json

In D5116#217458, @borg- wrote:

An attack would remove the power to heal.

Because UnitAI is dumb? (For it should work together.)

How would that work? How can I switch between healing / attacking?

10% is a lot. The range is too small to need to do more than just one.

In D5116#217463, @borg- wrote:

How would that work? How can I switch between healing / attacking?

Attack occurs against enemy units. Healing occurs against allied units. There should be no overlap to prevent them from working. I think. Haven't tested.

Minor aura is to encourage player to train more healers, not just 1 or 2.

I don't see any problems if you want to increase it to 10 or 15, but I prefer to decrease the effect to 5% then.

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr @wowgetoffyourcellphone ?

In D5116#217495, @borg- wrote:

Minor aura is to encourage player to train more healers, not just 1 or 2.

I don't see any problems if you want to increase it to 10 or 15, but I prefer to decrease the effect to 5% then.

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr @wowgetoffyourcellphone ?

6 meters is less than the range of the pikeman's attack. I suggest 10 for the effect to be noticed. It makes sense to have a small aura if you would rather these units be effective in larger numbers, not just 1 or 2.

In D5116#217416, @borg- wrote:

I think I expressed myself poorly. I mean, giving the druids a aura where it decreases the cost/research time of technologies in general, like each druid -1% cost of technologies, or an same aura (range) for the temple, with the same function.

I like the idea of druids increasing the attack of nearby soldiers.

I would caution against making healers too similar to Han ministers. I tend to agree with @real_tabasco_sauce that a player wouldn't make a healer/temple to get cheaper techs, so I don't think this would change a player's strategy.

Making healers available in p1 might be interesting. If you do that, I would make them available in the CC, though, because a temple would be very strong in p1.

Giving a healer attacking abilities sounds boring

In D5116#217500, @real_tabasco_sauce wrote:

In D5116#217495, @borg- wrote:

Minor aura is to encourage player to train more healers, not just 1 or 2.

I don't see any problems if you want to increase it to 10 or 15, but I prefer to decrease the effect to 5% then.

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr @wowgetoffyourcellphone ?

6 meters is less than the range of the pikeman's attack. I suggest 10 for the effect to be noticed. It makes sense to have a small aura if you would rather these units be effective in larger numbers, not just 1 or 2.

I would rather have a smaller effect over a larger area. If the area is too small then it becomes less likely to have any effect or that you would have to put healers all the way on the front line where they'll die.

So 10 meters with 5%?

Making healers available in p1 might be interesting. If you do that, I would make them available in the CC, though, because a temple would be very strong in p1.

Yeah a p1 temple would actually be super op especially since it costs wood for the brits.

So 10 meters with 5%?

Yeah, I think this is the move.

I also agree with range 10 effect 5. If it works well, I think an attack for druids can be interesting, especially to buff nearby melee units. Something close to a rank 1 conventional sword unit? We can improve the team bonus so that you cost less, that way a druid "army" might be possible. Regarding druids p1 I have my doubts. Trained in cc might be a good option, but p1 temples definitely think op. Would that conflict with Kushites who already started with a healer? I think for kushites, level 1 temple would be well suited as it costs stone, so it wouldn't be as op.

In D5116#217512, @borg- wrote:

If it works well, I think an attack for druids can be interesting, especially to buff nearby melee units. Something close to a rank 1 conventional sword unit?

I'm ok with giving it an attack like that, I think an anti-heal would be cooler, though.

Would that conflict with Kushites who already started with a healer?

Maybe. I wouldn't care. But I could see others having a problem with it, Maybe it's better to give that to Kush.

I think for kushites, level 1 temple would be well suited as it costs stone, so it wouldn't be as op.

I think it would still be OP. Being able to quickly heal a half dead raiding force sounds very very strong. Stone is still easy to gather in p1.

I think it would still be OP. Being able to quickly heal a half dead raiding force sounds very very strong. Stone is still easy to gather in p1.

It would be very strong, but as OP as the maury elephant hunting? Or camel rush? I think strong but not as good as these.

We can improve the team bonus so that you cost less, that way a druid "army" might be possible.

I would caution against something like this. They should not be a standalone force because that would be very annoying. So their armor/hp should remain low.

In D5116#217520, @real_tabasco_sauce wrote:

I think it would still be OP. Being able to quickly heal a half dead raiding force sounds very very strong. Stone is still easy to gather in p1.

It would be very strong, but as OP as the maury elephant hunting? Or camel rush? I think strong but not as good as these.

I think temples would be much stronger than both those. You rush with archers/slingers that can't be easily chased down,. Those archers/slingers heal so you never lose units in mass die. Rushing units quickly level up while keeping the enemy eco stagnant. And you can get re-healed while doing eco. Even if you start to do bad rush you can go back and heal so it won't hurt you that much unless you suicide.

Being able to garrison 20 men into a temple would also make it very difficult to rush them. Being able to quickly hide all your units means you won't lose a lot of units on your front line. It also means that you can never really walk past a temple because you'll get sandwiched inbetween a CC and an ungarrisioning temple.

It sounds fun to rush with. But it just sounds very OP to me.

It's true, I guess you could heal the units while they gather wood for eco. That would be pretty nuts on top of the fact the kush get those pyramids. Maybe best to leave as is.

In D5116#217522, @real_tabasco_sauce wrote:

It's true, I guess you could heal the units while they gather wood for eco. That would be pretty nuts on top of the fact the kush get those pyramids. Maybe best to leave as is.

Yeah, it's really the heal while doing eco that I think would be the big problem. As an example, think of all those games where players rush back and forth for 10 minutes with equal pops throughout. Then one player is somehow able to get to p2 to get a temple and the rushes back and forth quickly become lopsided.

I think it would be a ton of fun to have if you are the rusher. But I just think it'd be OP.

If you are interested in pursing, maybe give to brits. Make brits temple more expensive and cost all stone. That would take away brits' ability to range units and temple at the same time. I think that would be fun to try in community mod.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7253/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/8342/display/redirect