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[Gameplay] Celtic woman
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Authored by borg- on Sep 10 2023, 5:48 PM.

Details

Summary

Celtic women were famous for their ferocity and aggressiveness against enemies and it was also common for them to fight alongside men in battles.

The patch proposes an upgrade technology. It works the same as the Macedonian silver shield.
Women gain +100% melee attack, 10% movement speed and 25% vision range.
The proposal here is that the Celtic player has a greater range of possibilities, especially at the beginning of the game. On a map with a lot of food, along with other women's technologies, it could be quite interesting to have an initial rush with men and some women.
The patch also gives women a sword and clothing changes so that the enemy understands that the technology has been researched.
I have some questions here.
Should I remove movement speed?
Should I remove the vision range? I have increased it so that they can effectively attack more nearby enemies
Should I add a shield and increase the armor a little?
Should it be a spear instead of a sword? Taking into account that you can take down rams easier now.
Should I change Celtic woman after research to standard aggressive?

Test Plan

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Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
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Event Timeline

borg- created this revision.Sep 10 2023, 5:48 PM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7271/display/redirect

@wowgetoffyourcellphone can you build a new icon with the Celtic woman wielding the sword? Or the spear if you prefer.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/8360/display/redirect

borg- requested review of this revision.Sep 10 2023, 6:08 PM

Maybe make it similar to the Roman "Marian Reforms" by turning the women into a viable late-game/Hail Mary combat unit at the cost of their economic prowess.

Maybe make it similar to the Roman "Marian Reforms" by turning the women into a viable late-game/Hail Mary combat unit at the cost of their economic prowess.

I think this would be a good way to go about it. 10% movement speed is good, I wouldn't go much faster than that. I would prefer sword to a spear, and maybe only add a small shield if you add one at all. Either p2 or p3, but definitely researched from the CC. Increase vision by 100%, since you are starting from a very low vision already, add a little armor, and decrease grain gather rate by 25%.
And yes, they should default to aggressive stance.

borg- added a comment.Sep 11 2023, 3:23 PM

More one question, can capture?

In D5125#217902, @borg- wrote:

More one question, can capture?

Yeah, maybe 1/2 the capture attack of a CS unit.

borg- updated this revision to Diff 22265.EditedSep 17 2023, 12:28 AM

Can get formation
Can capture
Now it has a shield
30% penalty for grains
Tech from house to CC
Attack type changed to sword
Sound attack sword

For some reason, the standard aggressive position for women doesn't work, but I don't think it's a problem, players can change it anyway.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7293/display/redirect

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/8964/display/redirect

borg- updated this revision to Diff 22266.EditedSep 17 2023, 12:32 AM

@wowgetoffyourcellphone and @Freagarach please check if the actor is right. I used men base and also some parts of the carry/gather

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr please check if need to inherit any more characteristics from the male infantry

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7294/display/redirect

borg- edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Sep 17 2023, 12:32 AM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/8965/display/redirect

wrong path @borg-
Users/Estevan/Desktop/ps/binaries/data/mods/public/

borg- updated this revision to Diff 22267.Sep 17 2023, 12:53 AM

Fix actor (gather)

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7295/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/8384/display/redirect

borg- added a comment.EditedSep 18 2023, 9:57 PM

I think i will increase the attack, +4 of must be better.

borg- added a comment.EditedSep 18 2023, 10:48 PM

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr must request loom tech?

If so, should be searchable in houses again or one technology in the house and another in CC not a problem for you?

In D5125#218306, @borg- wrote:

I think i will increase the attack, +4 of must be better.

yeah, higher attack would be good. It has to be worth the -30% grain gather rate.

In D5125#218308, @borg- wrote:

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr must request loom tech?

If so, should be searchable in houses again or one technology in the house and another in CC not a problem for you?

I think this technology should certainly be researched from the cc. In that case, I think it would be fine to not require loom.

In D5125#218306, @borg- wrote:

I think i will increase the attack, +4 of must be better.

yeah, higher attack would be good. It has to be worth the -30% grain gather rate.

In D5125#218308, @borg- wrote:

@real_tabasco_sauce @chrstgtr must request loom tech?

If so, should be searchable in houses again or one technology in the house and another in CC not a problem for you?

I think this technology should certainly be researched from the cc. In that case, I think it would be fine to not require loom.

I think this all works.

borg- updated this revision to Diff 22288.Sep 20 2023, 1:47 PM

Correct parent
Boldica shield > correct shield of each civ
Attack 4 > 5 grain rate -30% > -25%

Some question, can be patrol?

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7311/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/8400/display/redirect

borg- added a comment.Sep 21 2023, 4:50 PM

@wowgetoffyourcellphone I know you're very busy, but could you make an icon for this woman with a sword and shield?

Freagarach added inline comments.Sep 24 2023, 2:14 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/technologies/women_warrior.json
17 ↗(On Diff #22288)

(Correct minus symbol please. :) )

borg- updated this revision to Diff 22314.Sep 24 2023, 3:02 PM

Correct minus signal

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7328/display/redirect

borg- marked an inline comment as done.Sep 24 2023, 3:36 PM
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Sep 26 2023, 6:34 PM
borg- added a comment.Oct 1 2023, 5:54 AM

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @real_tabasco_sauce

Should I add it to the tooltip that can come into formation and capture?
If so, can you help me with this? How could I write in the best possible way?

real_tabasco_sauce added a comment.EditedOct 1 2023, 6:29 AM
In D5125#218919, @borg- wrote:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @real_tabasco_sauce

Should I add it to the tooltip that can come into formation and capture?
If so, can you help me with this? How could I write in the best possible way?

I don't think it is necessary to say these details explicitly, so what you could say instead is something like:
"Women become trained warriors with +3 hack damage and +10% movement speed, but lose 30% grain gather rate."
With this sentence, the 'trained warriors' part lets the user know that they are much like a CS unit, so they get higher vision range and capture attack etc.

borg- updated this revision to Diff 22349.Oct 1 2023, 2:52 PM

Tooltip

Vulcan added a comment.Oct 1 2023, 2:55 PM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/7353/display/redirect

Vulcan added a comment.Oct 1 2023, 3:15 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/8442/display/redirect

This revision was landed with ongoing or failed builds.Oct 5 2023, 2:57 AM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Oct 5 2023, 2:57 AM