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Team bonus balancing
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Authored by ValihrAnt on Oct 27 2019, 3:21 PM.
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Summary

Nerfs Iber, Kush and Rome team bonuses all from 20% to 10%.

For Iberians it is because the cheaper skirmishers allow for a very strong boom, a very strong cavalry rush and also gives a much stronger late game due to being able to spam units more easily, and also be cost efficient whilst taking bad fights.
For Romans it is a similar story to the Iberians. Units being created faster allows for a stronger boom, makes defending rushes easier due to being able to get defenders out faster and in late game you can reinforce armies quicker.
For Kushites it is because I plan to reduce elephant base cost slightly (to 225F+M) and with a 10% reduction that ends up being the same cost as 250 with 20% reduction. Elephants with Kush teambonus already feel very strong and by leaving the teambonus unchanged they would end up a bit too strong.

Test Plan

Enter match with Iberians, Kushites and Romans as teammates. Check if skirmishers and elephants are 10% cheaper and 10% faster to train.

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Event Timeline

ValihrAnt created this revision.Oct 27 2019, 3:21 PM
ValihrAnt edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)Oct 27 2019, 3:24 PM
Stan awarded a token.Oct 27 2019, 3:37 PM
elexis added a subscriber: elexis.EditedOct 27 2019, 4:15 PM

Congratulations to coming forth and actually uploading a patch to change things.

Enter match with Iberians, Kushites and Romans as teammates. Check if skirmishers and elephants are 10% cheaper and 10% faster to train.

That's basically the "test that it works" plan which basically should be implied by performing a review.
A typical oversight is to forget some files that should receive the analogous change.

But what the summary / test plan misses to explain is the reason as to why this nerf should be performed, why this is team bonus is too strong.

I guess it's not so hard to see why -20% resource cost might be too impactful on matches.
But for romans, they don't have another team bonus, so perhaps this should be compensated for by giving them something else, or is that +10% production speed similarly impactful to other team bonuses already?
Perhaps this bonus is more "OP" in lategame where it's about reproducing spam rather than in early games, or is it bad so early on too because it allows to boom so much faster?

Also contributors to the game should add themselves to the game credits, that currently is gui/credits/texts/programming.json (but soon it will be time for a separate category for balancing).

(Also in case you weren't aware, you can search the commit history in the browser or using the svn blame tool, where it shows you for every line of a file which commit changed it, where you can find further links to the arguments and missing arguments when it was committed, for instance at https://code.wildfiregames.com/source/0ad/browse/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/auras/teambonuses/kush_player_teambonus.json;23099?as=source )

Edit: Finally if possible it would be good to have a peer review, as in some competitive player judging whether 10% is the best number - (did borg- have an opinion on this, what changes did he perform in his mod?)

borg- said he agrees with rome and iber, but says that kushites are underpowered and that this would nerf them further, i.e. that it would be better to keep the kushites bonus as long as they lack other bonuses.
I don't mind either way, you know better than me. (Also if there are multiple opinions, for balancing issues one can always go the way of doing the average of opinions, i.e. 15% bonus for kushites, in case both opinions have a point)

ValihrAnt updated this revision to Diff 10218.Oct 28 2019, 7:10 PM
ValihrAnt edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)

Fixes oversights.

ValihrAnt updated this revision to Diff 10219.Oct 28 2019, 7:17 PM

Apparently I need to combine them, sorry for spam.

ValihrAnt updated this revision to Diff 10220.Oct 28 2019, 7:25 PM

Actually fixed it. :)

Thank you.

That's basically the "test that it works" plan which basically should be implied by performing a review.

I'll try to improve on that in the future.

A typical oversight is to forget some files that should receive the analogous change.

Yeah, I did do that, but I went back and fixed all I could find, which is only the History tab.

But what the summary / test plan misses to explain is the reason as to why this nerf should be performed, why this is team bonus is too strong.

I added that to original.

Finally if possible it would be good to have a peer review, as in some competitive player judging whether 10% is the best number - (did borg- have an opinion on this, what changes did he perform in his mod?)
borg- said he agrees with rome and iber, but says that kushites are underpowered and that this would nerf them further, i.e. that it would be better to keep the kushites bonus as long as they lack other bonuses.

I have talked to Feld and he agreed with the changes. In the case of borg- I was trying to contact him , but didn't get a response yet, though in his own balance mod he changed Kush bonus to 10% as well. I think it's just that he didn't didn't know the full context of the change, which is reducing elephant base cost just like he also had done in his mod. But I have no trouble changing this if he disagrees. Bonus wise Kush have more bonuses than most other civs, they're just all very weak, but that's a different matter.

D2436 proposes a balancing credits category that allows us to add you to the credits properly.

Nescio added a subscriber: Nescio.Fri, Nov 22, 7:35 PM

Perhaps the Kushite bonus ought to be replaced with something else? Half of the civilizations can't train elephant, so the Kushite team bonus is useless for them.

You mean something historically relatable which perhaps could be grasped from Sundiatas thread?