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[gameplay] make catapult / stonethrower more useful
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Authored by marder on Feb 27 2022, 9:15 AM.

Details

Summary

Imo they are after rP23285 and D2494 still very weak, especially compared to rams who have a much higher damage output.

One problem is that the attack spread is too big, so that they often need multiple attempts to hit e.g. a tower (e.g. when shooting at a tower at max distance they only hit 3/10 shots when I tested). Together with the super long reload time and unpacking, they are right now the inferior siege unit.

So decrease their attack spread to 3, increase their crush damage and also increase their vision range slightly, so you can actually see what they attack.

This still means they are primarily useful against buildings, and not unit killer as in a23.

Test Plan

agree

Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
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Automatic diff as part of commit; lint not applicable.
Unit
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Event Timeline

marder created this revision.Feb 27 2022, 9:15 AM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/6820/display/redirect

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/5728/display/redirect

marder requested review of this revision.Feb 27 2022, 9:37 AM
marder updated this revision to Diff 19775.Feb 28 2022, 11:54 AM
marder retitled this revision from [gameplay - Alpha 26] increase catapult / stonethrower attack slightly to [gameplay - Alpha 26] make catapult / stonethrower more useful.
marder edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
marder retitled this revision from [gameplay - Alpha 26] make catapult / stonethrower more useful to [gameplay] make catapult / stonethrower more useful.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/6824/display/redirect

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/5732/display/redirect

ValihrAnt accepted this revision as: ValihrAnt.Mar 15 2022, 2:48 PM
ValihrAnt added a subscriber: ValihrAnt.

Definitely agree that catapults desperately need a buff. This makes 3 catapults deal very slightly more damage than a single ram, while still costing significantly more and taking more population space, and being more vulnerable to ranged units.

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Mar 15 2022, 2:48 PM

Maybe even more vision, I can't see the progress on bombing the house unless I move closer.

marder updated this revision to Diff 19933.Mar 15 2022, 3:43 PM
marder edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)

actually @ValihrAnt is right. they were still to weak.
up to 350 damage, which means there now ~ half as useful as a ram, their main advantage being the range.
Also giving them a bit more vision to fix the problem @Langbart reported.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/vs2015-differential/6921/display/redirect

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

builderr-debug-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/UIFoundation.framework/Versions/A/UIFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: object file (../../../libraries/osx/fmt/lib/libfmt.a(format.cc.o)) was built for newer OSX version (10.13) than being linked (10.12)
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builderr-release-macos.txt
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreAudio.framework/CoreAudio are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//AudioToolbox.framework/AudioToolbox are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//ForceFeedback.framework/ForceFeedback are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreVideo.framework/CoreVideo are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Cocoa.framework/Cocoa are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//IOKit.framework/IOKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//QuartzCore.framework/QuartzCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//Metal.framework/Metal are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
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ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Versions/A/FSEvents are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.
ld: warning: object file (../../../libraries/osx/fmt/lib/libfmt.a(format.cc.o)) was built for newer OSX version (10.13) than being linked (10.12)
ld: warning: text-based stub file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation.tbd and library file /System/Library/Frameworks//CoreFoundation.framework/CoreFoundation are out of sync. Falling back to library file for linking.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/5830/display/redirect

In D4511#194565, @Stan wrote:

@ValihrAnt @chrstgtr @wowgetoffyourcellphone any opinion on the new values?

With the way the game is now, I am good with the patch as-is.

@ValihrAnt (for the new values) @chrstgtr so I can commit this?

looking at this :https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/74669-catapults-dont-work/#comment-486610
I might even make another diff to increase the pierce resistance. Never understood why they are so susceptible to archers.

Yes, this is ok.

Fine for me too

This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Mar 25 2022, 7:32 AM

Maybe even more vision, I can't see the progress on bombing the house unless I move closer.

Larger buildings appear to continue having this problem. Raised by andy5995 through the forum.

[...] I was firing at a Fort (that was *partially* obscured by FOW) with a Mace catapult. Note the game time in the upper right. I start firing about 19:55. Continuous fire until around 23:32, but no damage appears in the fort's health bars.

When I units in range to completely clear FOW, the fort instantaneously shows as destroyed.

even more vision?

Larger buildings appear to continue having this problem.
even more vision?

Would be an option, but feels to me like they would become mobile lighthouses then. Is it that common/that big of a problem?

Seems like something that should be fixed on the code/ engine level