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borg- added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Why remove silver shields?

Better include them in D2846, given the discussion there.

600f/300m is very expensive If its affect only one unit.

Given that this effectively means +80 health, I think it's worth it.
Food shouldn't be too much of a problem in late game, and the silver shields technology also affects only one unit, but costs 1000 metal.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:34 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

it also helps to differentiate the two techs.

Why not keep the Agoge as is (+25% health, +10% training time), but change silver shields (template) to +10% health and +10% attack damage?

Sat, Jul 4, 5:33 PM
borg- added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Ok, tnx for information.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:31 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Why remove silver shields?

Better include them in D2846, given the discussion there.

600f/300m is very expensive If its affect only one unit.

Given that this effectively means +80 health, I think it's worth it.
Food shouldn't be too much of a problem in late game, and the silver shields technology also affects only one unit, but costs 1000 metal.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:29 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Given the direction of the discussion here, I'd recommend including both changing spartans_agoge.json and tweaking upgrade_mace_silvershields.json (and perhaps the mace_champion_infantry_e.xml template) here in this patch.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:25 PM
borg- added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Why remove silver Shields?

Sat, Jul 4, 5:20 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:14 PM
Angen added inline comments to D2860: Notify players with a sound when a player is defeated.
Sat, Jul 4, 5:13 PM
Angen added inline comments to D2860: Notify players with a sound when a player is defeated.
Sat, Jul 4, 5:12 PM
Nescio updated the diff for D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Changed special_war_horses technology:

  • limited to Champion Cavalry Spearman
  • increased health bonus to 25%, but added 10% training time (cf. Agoge)
  • raised cost to
Sat, Jul 4, 5:09 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2860: Notify players with a sound when a player is defeated.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:09 PM
Stan updated the diff for D2860: Notify players with a sound when a player is defeated.

Play a different sound depending on whether you were defeated, an ally was or an enemy was.

Sat, Jul 4, 5:04 PM
Nescio commandeered D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..
Sat, Jul 4, 5:03 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2591: Javelinist → Javelineer.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Sat, Jul 4, 4:50 PM
Nescio updated the diff for D2591: Javelinist → Javelineer.
  • rebased
Sat, Jul 4, 4:45 PM
Stan added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

Fair enough

Sat, Jul 4, 4:43 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

@Nescio shouldn't this affect heroes somehow too? Same question for the worker elephant

Only Mauryas have worker elephants and elephant archers. They're unlikely to be added to other civilizations, therefore I think it's fine.
For elephant heroes what is importance is the hero, not the elephant. I preferred not to touch them here, there are already a few patches discussing hero auras and stats.

Sat, Jul 4, 4:33 PM
Nescio closed D2668: [gameplay] deprecate rotary mill, introduce special gaul farming technology.
Sat, Jul 4, 4:28 PM
Stan added a comment to D2691: Fix NVTT warning when building on some linux platforms.

Ah nice! Didn't see your comment until now. Should I abandon this?

Sat, Jul 4, 4:13 PM
Stan added a comment to D2668: [gameplay] deprecate rotary mill, introduce special gaul farming technology.

Can you close this, I forgot to reference the commit :/

Sat, Jul 4, 4:12 PM
Stan committed rP23803: Deprecate rotary mill, and instead introduce a special technology (town phase….
Deprecate rotary mill, and instead introduce a special technology (town phase…
Sat, Jul 4, 4:11 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2668: [gameplay] deprecate rotary mill, introduce special gaul farming technology.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Sat, Jul 4, 4:05 PM
Stan updated the diff for D2668: [gameplay] deprecate rotary mill, introduce special gaul farming technology.

Rebase.

Sat, Jul 4, 3:59 PM
Stan added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

@Nescio shouldn't this affect heroes somehow too? Same question for the worker elephant

Sat, Jul 4, 3:51 PM
Angen committed rP23802: [gameplay-a24] Allow to train mercenaries from embassy by any civilisation.
[gameplay-a24] Allow to train mercenaries from embassy by any civilisation
Sat, Jul 4, 3:10 PM
Angen closed D2536: [gameplay] make embassy mercenaries native.
Sat, Jul 4, 3:10 PM
Angen committed rP23801: [gameplay-a24] Lower the repeat rate of spear cavalry.
[gameplay-a24] Lower the repeat rate of spear cavalry
Sat, Jul 4, 2:44 PM
Angen closed D1365: [gameplay] Lower the repeat rate of spear cavalry.
Sat, Jul 4, 2:44 PM
borg- accepted D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.
In D2861#122604, @Stan wrote:

Please accept the patch then :)

Sat, Jul 4, 2:41 PM
borg- added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.
Sat, Jul 4, 2:40 PM
borg- added a comment to D1365: [gameplay] Lower the repeat rate of spear cavalry.

I think 1.5 repeat time are better, but im ok with this values.

Sat, Jul 4, 2:40 PM
Stan added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

Please accept the patch then :)

Sat, Jul 4, 2:39 PM
borg- added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

In a21 where champions were more used, spartan and macedonian champions were quite popular with the previous values of the technologies, which encourages me to think the techs shouldn't be buffed too much.

Sat, Jul 4, 2:38 PM
Angen accepted D1365: [gameplay] Lower the repeat rate of spear cavalry.

I think current rs is ok. It looks fine. Not too fast and not too slow.

Sat, Jul 4, 2:35 PM
borg- added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

I also wondered why they were the same when I started the game. The values look good to me. Still ping @borg-

Sat, Jul 4, 2:34 PM
Feldfeld added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

In a21 where champions were more used, spartan and macedonian champions were quite popular with the previous values of the technologies, which encourages me to think the techs shouldn't be buffed too much.

Sat, Jul 4, 1:13 PM
Stan added a comment to D2668: [gameplay] deprecate rotary mill, introduce special gaul farming technology.

This is a bit heart breaking as it was my first animated model, but history seems to have spoken.

Sat, Jul 4, 1:11 PM
Feldfeld accepted D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

I also wondered why they were the same when I started the game. The values look good to me. Still ping @borg-

Sat, Jul 4, 1:09 PM
Stan committed rP23800: Decrease penalty -50% to -30% when promoting to advanced and elite..
Decrease penalty -50% to -30% when promoting to advanced and elite.
Sat, Jul 4, 1:05 PM
Stan closed D2792: [gameplay] Balance Advanced and Elite Tech..
Sat, Jul 4, 1:05 PM · Restricted Project
Stan added a comment to D2591: Javelinist → Javelineer.

Does this need a rebase?

Sat, Jul 4, 12:32 PM
Stan committed rP23799: Replace various equivalent phrases (show/hide, enable/disable, open/close….
Replace various equivalent phrases (show/hide, enable/disable, open/close…
Sat, Jul 4, 12:31 PM
Stan closed D2570: gui/manual/intro.txt use toggle.
Sat, Jul 4, 12:31 PM
Stan accepted D2570: gui/manual/intro.txt use toggle.

Changes look good and are harmless.

Sat, Jul 4, 12:30 PM
Stan added a comment to D1630: Add perlin noise generator..

@nani can you update the patch? and/or plan changes?

Sat, Jul 4, 12:25 PM
Stan updated subscribers of D2834: alphabetize entity limits and statistics classes.

@s0600204 thoughts on this?

Sat, Jul 4, 12:17 PM
Stan committed rP23798: Increase cost of "upgrade mercenaries rank" tech to make it more like the other….
Increase cost of "upgrade mercenaries rank" tech to make it more like the other…
Sat, Jul 4, 12:16 PM
Stan closed D2835: [gameplay] Increase cost of "upgrade mercenaries rank" tech..
Sat, Jul 4, 12:16 PM
Stan added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

I think you can change this patch to request review or something

Sat, Jul 4, 12:05 PM
Stan updated subscribers of D2496: tweak citizen cavalry and elephant footprints.

@borg- thoughts?

Sat, Jul 4, 11:56 AM
borg- updated the summary of D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..
Sat, Jul 4, 3:29 AM
borg- added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

@Nescio @Feldfeld check new values. I will make other patch for silver shield values.

Sat, Jul 4, 2:33 AM
borg- updated the diff for D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..
Sat, Jul 4, 2:32 AM
borg- added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Up new patch.

Sat, Jul 4, 2:28 AM
borg- updated the diff for D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..
Sat, Jul 4, 2:25 AM
borg- added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Actually I prefer the previous version.
Also, the indentation of the city phase line is wrong, crush damage is missing (see other technologies), and the modifications are not in alphabetical order.

Sat, Jul 4, 2:19 AM

Yesterday

borg- added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

What about:

+25% health and no armour upgrade for mace champ, cost 700 metal
+25% health and 10% attack + 10% training time, cost 350f 350m for spartan champ?
Fri, Jul 3, 10:35 PM
Feldfeld added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Understandably so. If the train time is removed then the tech should at least cost equal amount of resources than the macedonian silver shields (like now)

Fri, Jul 3, 9:59 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Well, I'm not particularly attached to the training time bit, it can be removed, but +30% health and +10% attack damage seems rather excessive.

Fri, Jul 3, 9:55 PM
Feldfeld added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

I'm fine with it too but the fact that macedonian champions are almost equal to spartan ones, but train 10% faster bothers me a bit but arguably this is compensated by tech cost.

Fri, Jul 3, 9:45 PM
Nescio updated the summary of D2496: tweak citizen cavalry and elephant footprints.
Fri, Jul 3, 9:40 PM
Nescio updated the summary of D2496: tweak citizen cavalry and elephant footprints.
Fri, Jul 3, 9:39 PM
Nescio updated the summary of D2496: tweak citizen cavalry and elephant footprints.
Fri, Jul 3, 9:35 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Actually I prefer the previous version, keeping the modifications unchanged, but reducing the cost, to compensate for the fact it is limited to champions. (How about 600 food, 300 metal, 60 seconds? Food is much less a valuable in late game than metal.)

Fri, Jul 3, 9:27 PM
Feldfeld accepted D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Discard the preceding post, it was not up to date. The changes look good to me

Fri, Jul 3, 9:20 PM
Feldfeld added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

I completely missed that he changed the stats (had probably another version in mind), then it is fine. Now spartan champion might be a little bit too strong but this is probably fine.

Fri, Jul 3, 9:18 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

The upgrade_mace_silvershields.json technology costs 1000 metal and 40 seconds and results in having them +1 armour level and +10% health, which together is equivalent to a 22% health increase. I'd say the Spartan technology is better, even without this patch.

Fri, Jul 3, 9:14 PM
Feldfeld added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..
In D2846#122473, @Stan wrote:

@Feldfeld care to accept again if it's good?

Fri, Jul 3, 9:06 PM
Feldfeld added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

The changes are good for war horses
For silvershields, the tech will still remain better than the spartan agoge. (macedonian spear champion remain a little bit stronger and train faster than the spartan equivalent after the techs). This is not necessarily a problem by itself but I just want that this is recognized before accepting the patch.

Fri, Jul 3, 9:05 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Fri, Jul 3, 8:52 PM
Nescio created D2861: [gameplay] differentiate African and Indian war elephants.
Fri, Jul 3, 8:47 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2813: delete duplicate kush_pyramid.

@Stan?

Fri, Jul 3, 8:35 PM
Lionkanzen awarded D150: Proposal for a replace button for observer in game when player want leave and observer can switch in a Yellow Medal token.
Fri, Jul 3, 5:34 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2860: Notify players with a sound when a player is defeated.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Fri, Jul 3, 2:42 PM
Stan created D2860: Notify players with a sound when a player is defeated.
Fri, Jul 3, 2:37 PM
Vulcan added a comment to D2859: Allow to play different sounds based on what attacked you.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Fri, Jul 3, 2:04 PM
Stan created D2859: Allow to play different sounds based on what attacked you.
Fri, Jul 3, 1:59 PM
Stan added a comment to D1751: [WIP] Map ping.

For map ping alarmally_1.ogg could be used as placeholder

Fri, Jul 3, 1:49 PM
Nescio requested changes to D2816: [gameplay] tweak champions costs.
Fri, Jul 3, 1:43 PM · Restricted Project
Vulcan added a comment to D2858: [gameplay] limit Seleucid choice to infantry champions.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Fri, Jul 3, 1:29 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Sparta already has issues with its population limit

D2535

Fri, Jul 3, 1:27 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Seleucids have two groups of champs, one group dont have Champion spearman cavalry, so tech would be useless.

Good point! → D2858.

Fri, Jul 3, 1:22 PM
Nescio created D2858: [gameplay] limit Seleucid choice to infantry champions.
Fri, Jul 3, 1:21 PM
badosu added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

I'm not too sure about this change, seems too specific to be actually useful. Sparta already has issues with its population limit and special techs like this alleviated this problem a bit, even though not often used.

Fri, Jul 3, 1:15 PM
badosu accepted D2816: [gameplay] tweak champions costs.
Fri, Jul 3, 1:09 PM · Restricted Project
badosu accepted D2835: [gameplay] Increase cost of "upgrade mercenaries rank" tech..

I like it costing only metal, makes a lot more sense. I'm not too sure about the total cost, it might get tricky (especially as ptolemy) to play without extra mines. That said, it's overcompensated by spam and military colonies for map control, so I think this is a positive change overall.

Fri, Jul 3, 1:01 PM
badosu accepted D2792: [gameplay] Balance Advanced and Elite Tech..
Fri, Jul 3, 12:58 PM · Restricted Project
borg- added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Another idea: make special_war_horses.json the cavalry equivalent of spartans_agoge.json, giving it similar stats, but affects only "Champion Cavalry Spearman".
Historically Nisean horses were highly prized and sought after, but reserved for the heaviest shock cavalry only (i.e. spearman champions in 0 A.D.).
The upgrade_mace_silvershields.json time increase looks fine. Maybe split this patch in two?

Fri, Jul 3, 12:49 PM
Nescio added a comment to D2851: [gameplay] Remove <PreferredClasses> from axeman/swordman/maceman..

Better set human for everyone?

If that's what you want, fine, but it has to be set in the individual templates, for consistency, so the above still applies.

Fri, Jul 3, 11:31 AM
Nescio added a comment to D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology..

Another idea: make special_war_horses.json the cavalry equivalent of spartans_agoge.json, giving it similar stats, but affects only "Champion Cavalry Spearman".
Historically Nisean horses were highly prized and sought after, but reserved for the heaviest shock cavalry only (i.e. spearman champions in 0 A.D.).
The upgrade_mace_silvershields.json time increase looks fine. Maybe split this patch in two?

Fri, Jul 3, 11:24 AM
Nescio added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

Actually I prefer the previous version. Also, the indentation of the city phase line is wrong.

Fri, Jul 3, 11:23 AM
Stan added a comment to D2846: [gameplay] Fix issue / balance "spartans_agoge" tech..

@Feldfeld care to accept again if it's good?

Fri, Jul 3, 9:54 AM
autobuild committed rP23797: [i18n] Updated POT and PO files..
[i18n] Updated POT and PO files.
Fri, Jul 3, 9:33 AM
Stan added a comment to D2857: Matrix3D SSE, FMA, AVX.

Might help https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6121792/how-to-check-if-a-cpu-supports-the-sse3-instruction-set

Fri, Jul 3, 8:18 AM
asterix added reviewers for D2857: Matrix3D SSE, FMA, AVX: vladislavbelov, wraitii, linkmauve.

Welcome improvement.

Fri, Jul 3, 7:28 AM
borg- added a comment to D2851: [gameplay] Remove <PreferredClasses> from axeman/swordman/maceman..

The idea is nice, the implementation is wrong.
template_unit_cavalry_melee.xml and template_unit_infantry_melee.xml set a first preference to Human, which is inherited by all their children, i.e. this patch removes the second preference (Siege), but keeps the first.
What I would recommend is:

  • remove <PreferredClasses> from *_melee.xml;
  • set <PreferredClasses> to Human or Organic in *_pikeman.xml and *_spearman.xml;
  • set <PreferredClasses> to Unit or Unit+!Ship in *_axeman.xml and *_swordsman.xml;
  • remove <PreferredClasses> from *_maceman.xml.

See also D1354.
[EDIT] While at it:

  • remove <PreferredClasses> from *_ranged.xml;
  • set <PreferredClasses> to Human in *_archer.xml, *_javelinist.xml, *_slinger.xml.
Fri, Jul 3, 3:57 AM
Vulcan added a comment to D2857: Matrix3D SSE, FMA, AVX.

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Fri, Jul 3, 1:42 AM
Harbormaster failed remote builds in B12288: Diff 12534 for D2857: Matrix3D SSE, FMA, AVX!
Fri, Jul 3, 1:15 AM
Vulcan added a comment to D2857: Matrix3D SSE, FMA, AVX.

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Fri, Jul 3, 1:15 AM
Lionkanzen awarded D2856: [gameplay] Tweak special_war_horses technology. a Like token.
Fri, Jul 3, 1:12 AM