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Update. This adds a fix for a somewhat buggy hack/logic error. Compute Target Position accounted for twice the target movement, because pathing and one-at-a-
time motion didn't work with chasing otherwise. However, this led to issues when chasing slow units.
With this diff I can remove that particular hack and actually do the ID checking correctly, so that target positions are predicted correctly. This seems to improve chasing considerably in the test map I have (will upload tomorrow).
If there are evidences for dog armors, this is probably Roman and not Celtic.
Britons did use body armor, chainmail is attested (Kirkburn).
Got fixed
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make Stan happy
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Looks alright and seems to work, I assume they should have a tooltip at some point.
update
ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/campaigns/default_menu/CampaignMenu.js line 26 MapCache is not defined CampaignMenu@gui/campaigns/default_menu/CampaignMenu.js:26:3 init@gui/campaigns/default_menu/CampaignMenu.js:161:19 createAndStartCampaign@gui/campaigns/new_modal/NewCampaignModal.js:30:10 @gui/campaigns/new_modal/NewCampaignModal.js:13:65
Can't be committed because of String Freeze
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@Nescio opnion?
Quick rebase.
Needs thorough testing on Windows because permission issues are common, and the game doesn't like anything touching its files. Actually, can we have a test for this?
I think with D3243 it'll be possible to do this cleanly
I would like to merge this early in the release process of A25
Superseded by other changes, not quite clever enough.
Might be an oversight, but I've never seen it written with it, always a "normal" s.
No, I meant the first s in the transliteration, it has Xsayāršā [sic] instead of Xšayāršā.
(There is a typo in Xerxes' name, though, the s ought to be a š.)
This patch addresses the issue AFAICS.
Anyway, if someone ask you how to pronounce Xšayāršā, keep in mind:
- x is pronounced as in Scottish /loch/ or German /ach/ (IPA /x/) and not as in expert (IPA /ks/)
- š is pronounced as in English ship (IPA /ʃ/)
- ā is twice as long as short a
@wraitii, another page from Pierre Lecoq Les inscriptions de la Perse achéménide (1997) with the French (generic) and transliterated (specific) names of the Achaemenids:
(There is a typo in Xerxes' name, though, the s ought to be a š.)grep -r Xšayāršā shows you need to look in the *.public-templates-units.po files to find out how various translations handle this specific name (though I guess most leave it untranslated).
I think it won't work because translations get one complete sentence for ALPHA XXIV: Xšayaṛša if they could be split then yes. eg
(Also, the "AINames" in the pers.json file are an inconsistent mess. Something for the next alpha.)
Couldn't you just use the specific name string from the hero_xerxes_i.xml template?
In rP24787#48545, @Nescio wrote:(the fact that these are translated at all seems rather odd to me)
Keep in mind not all languages use the Latin script, e.g. Bulgarian, Serbian, Russian, Ukrainian use the Cyrillic alphabet.
(the fact that these are translated at all seems rather odd to me)
Keep in mind not all languages use the Latin script, e.g. Bulgarian, Serbian, Russian, Ukrainian use the Cyrillic alphabet.
In rP24787#48543, @Nescio wrote:Good! For all languages?
Never blindly trust Wikipedia (or a forum post).
in particular I don't believe French uses it for Old Persian
Here's a page from Pierre Lecoq Les inscriptions de la Perse achéménide (1997):
As you can see this French publication clearly distinguishes between short a and long ā in Old Persian.
Anyways, the question of how this mistake was introduced is rather irrelevant, my point is that I will fix this manually after pulling the translations.
Good! For all languages?
Set champion cavalry build time to 30.
Reducing overall speed to 1.9 or 1.8 like first patch, still keeps melee cavalry proportionally faster than ranged.
In rP24787#48541, @Nescio wrote:While it is true different transliteration conventions exist (e.g. x, kh, ch, ḥ, or h for 𐎧; or ā, â, å, or aa for 𐎠), the Old Persian cuneiform is quite clear, the last vowel is explicitly long:
𐎧𐏁𐎹𐎠𐎼𐏁𐎠
I agree, my point is that the transliteration of "long a" can vary between languages, and in particular I don't believe French uses it for Old Persian (I based this on the wikipedia pages for Xerxes and for "a macron"). I took the spelling from the suggestion thread (e.g. here) and I suppose my double-check took me to French wikipedia, and I incorrectly didn't assume that the English variant could differ. I should have checked better, admittedly, but it so happens that we were rushed for time since we had declared string freeze without picking the release name (an unfortunate mistake).
While it is true different transliteration conventions exist (e.g. x, kh, ch, ḥ, or h for 𐎧; or ā, â, å, or aa for 𐎠), the Old Persian cuneiform is quite clear, the last vowel is explicitly long:
𐎧𐏁𐎹𐎠𐎼𐏁𐎠
x-š-y-a-r-š-a
Xšayaṛšā (or Xšayaạršā or Xšayāršā, depending on how you want to render the vocalic r)
In D3476#153465, @borg- wrote:So let's simplify, 1.9 to all cavalry, it's an interesting value and less risky.
So let's simplify, 1.9 to all cavalry, it's an interesting value and less risky.
I believe the risk of ranged cavalry being OP is greater than the risk of making cav-rush not as viable, to be honest.
Looked around, it does seem more accurate in the English transliteration, though it's apparently not used in every language.
I think that a change in speed at that moment is a little risky, we have little time to test, I would just be with the increase in the cost of tech and training time.
In D3476#153460, @borg- wrote:I would like to decrease melee too, maybe 19,0 melee and 16.5 ranged.
You've misread, the new values (with this patch) are 18 and 14.4.
Updated the diff to not do "cavalry->subtype" changes but just change the subtypes explicitly.
As I wrote earlier, it's cleaner (lines in fewer files) to simply give template_*_cavalry.xml a 2× and only modify archers and javelineers afterwards.
While in xšāyaϑiya (king) the final a is short, in Xšayaṛšā (Xerxes) the last a is long: ā. Please correct.
I would like to decrease melee too, maybe 19,0 melee and 16.5 ranged.
Is the training time of champ cavalry adequate with the new citizen time?
well, thing is, it is not exactly error while checking signature, it is just why mod is marked as invalid.
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Updated the diff to not do "cavalry->subtype" changes but just change the subtypes explicitly. The result is that cavalry goes from 9*2*1.1 = 19.8 for melee and 9*2*0.9 = 16.2 for ranged (a delta of 3.6) to 18 and 14.4 (same absolute delta). Can maybe bump ranged to 1.65.
Instead make units not stop. Merging this soon.
This doesn't look particularly more correct to me, to be honest.
I think this is reasonably "bug fix" enough, to be honest, because if a lot of games are private it'll become frustrating. In fact, we probably will need to add an option to filter them out in the future.
(Have you seen D3385 by the way ?)
One of my fears is about champion cavalry, so the patch helps a little bit.
For me the changes are valid, I will wait @Feldfeld opnion.
Mon, Jan 25
In D3476#153414, @Nescio wrote:But if those weren't problematic in A23, then why must it be changed now?
I misunderstood what you meant, sorry. You're suggesting removing the x2 from the cavalry template, and just doing it in the subclasses, correct? If so, I can agree.
No, I meant removing duplication of the lines in the children, e.g. https://code.wildfiregames.com/differential/diff/15701/
Sorry, I wasn't clear: the run-multiplier of units in formation, not the run-multiplier of formations themselves.
But if those weren't problematic in A23, then why must it be changed now?
In D3476#153412, @Nescio wrote:As you can read in the discussion of the patch that changed it, it was done to keep early cavalry raids a viable option.
Yes, but I believe it remains relatively viable (assuming a 10-12 cavalry raid, the difference is one cavalry-equivalent). Anyways.
Not really, ...
I misunderstood what you meant, sorry. You're suggesting removing the x2 from the cavalry template, and just doing it in the subclasses, correct? If so, I can agree.
Then why not lower those?
Sorry, I wasn't clear: the run-multiplier of units in formation, not the run-multiplier of formations themselves.
I meant that infantry got a much larger increase in proportion. They went +20%, when cavalry went +6%. All in all, cavalry used to train 50% slower, now it trains 33% slower, and this remains a rather substantial buff.
As you can read in the discussion of the patch that changed it, it was done to keep early cavalry raids a viable option. I'm not opposed to making it 50% again across the board (i.e. citizen cavalry 18, champion cavalry 30).
You seem to be suggesting larger changes, which seems contradictory.
Not really, you're proposing 1.8×0.9=1.62 (ranged) and 1.8×1.1=1.98 (melee), I'm merely suggesting to have multipliers in fewer files to make it clearer what's going on, e.g. 1.6×1.2=1.92 (melee) and 1.6 (ranged) or 2×0.8=1.6 (ranged) and 2 (melee).
Formation run-multiplier benefits
Then why not lower those?
In D3476#153410, @Nescio wrote:Proportionally larger, yes, but “much larger” is an exaggeration: it used to be 10 and 15 in A23, now it's 12 and 16. This was intentional, see https://code.wildfiregames.com/D2866#122870
I meant that infantry got a much larger increase in proportion. They went +20%, when cavalry went +6%. All in all, cavalry used to train 50% slower, now it trains 33% slower, and this remains rather substantial.
Further, wall towers give vision, meaning in practice this isn't a problem at all.
Only for city walls, not for siege walls or palisades.
Ah, right, I actually forgot to mention in my reply above that the ability to mass them is also a problem, thus the training time increase.
If massed cavalry is much more of a problem than massed infantry, then why not make cavalry cost 2 population?
As discussed above (please read it), while that is true, infantry has a proportionally much larger build time increase, meaning cavalry is relatively easier to mass. The barracks fact is correct, but stables are cheaper and faster to build, and it simply remains true that ranged cavalry is easy to mass as things stand.
Proportionally larger, yes, but “much larger” is an exaggeration: it used to be 10 and 15 in A23, now it's 12 and 16. This was intentional, see https://code.wildfiregames.com/D2866#122870 Also, if citizen cavalry time is raised, then champion time ought to be adjusted proportionally as well.
I don't really see how that would be much different in concept / what your problem with this diff is, to be honest. 1.5 is a much larger nerf.
Or 1.6 or something. It would allow removing the 0.9× introduced earlier from the archer and javelineer templates and the <RunMultiplier> can remain unchanged.
In rP24779#48524, @Nescio wrote:If 4 isn't enough for outposts, then it's probably not enough for walls, palisades, obelisks etc. either, therefore the correct template to change is template_structure.xml, not the outpost.
Disagreed. Players are not surprised that walls do not give vision, they are that outposts do not give vision. Further, wall towers give vision, meaning in practice this isn't a problem at all.
If 4 isn't enough for outposts, then it's probably not enough for walls, palisades, obelisks etc. either, therefore the correct template to change is template_structure.xml, not the outpost.
In D3476#153403, @Nescio wrote:Then only change that, not:
Ah, right, I actually forgot to mention in my reply above that the ability to mass them is also a problem, thus the training time increase.
In rP24779#48520, @Nescio wrote:Wasn't 4 enough? That's the tile size, isn't it?
The problem was that they needed more when stuck between four different tiles which might look weird in some cases. Another Los issur
Are you sure the incons are visible and not clutter the UI ?
Wasn't 4 enough? That's the tile size, isn't it?
The problem is very high mobility, making it possible to kite damage. The solution is therefore less mobility, and less ability to kite damage.
Then only change that, not:
Specifically nerfs CS-ranged cavalry by +2 build time, reduced range compared to CS infantry, and increase the prepare time of ranged archer to above 1 MP turn.
Cavalry has a higher training time than it used to have in A23 and it can no longer be trained at the barracks.
How about simply <WalkSpeed op="mul">1.5</WalkSpeed> for template_*_cavalry.xml and 1.2 for *_axeman.xml etc., leaving the rest as is?
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