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[gameplay] Tweak maurya worker elephant stats
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Authored by Feldfeld on Jul 2 2020, 2:18 PM.

Details

Summary

The starting maurya worker elephant is a good civilisation bonus. However currently the player is not encouraged to train more. This patch aims at reducing the cost and train time of the elephant to help fix that, and also decreases armor level (which was unnatural before, the elephant was very tanky for no reason).
I put the armor at 1 Hack and 1 Pierce but if people prefer I can also do 0 Hack and 0 Pierce

Test Plan

Agree this is an improvement.

Diff Detail

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rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
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Unit
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Event Timeline

Feldfeld created this revision.Jul 2 2020, 2:18 PM
Nescio added a subscriber: Nescio.Jul 2 2020, 2:34 PM
Nescio added inline comments.
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/maur_support_elephant.xml
4–5 ↗(On Diff #12520)

This means they take +52% hack damage and +109% pierce damage.

12–15 ↗(On Diff #12520)

For comparison:

  • dock: 200 wood, 150 s
  • farmstead: 100 wood, 45 s
  • storehouse: 100 wood, 40 s

(and those aren't mobile).

Feldfeld added inline comments.Jul 2 2020, 2:46 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/maur_support_elephant.xml
4–5 ↗(On Diff #12520)

Yes, I think it's fine. They still are tankier than unarmored human units due to their HP, and the previous values really weren't logical (especially when compared to the archer on elephant units). This reduction will avoid them being potentially used as tank units after this patch.

12–15 ↗(On Diff #12520)

Yes, but civic center training queue is very valuable due to it training primary eco gathering units and having a hole there slows economy, so I think it's fine too (but feedback from more people is welcomed here)
Also worker elephant take 1 population space which is also a small factor.

Nescio added inline comments.Jul 2 2020, 3:00 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/maur_support_elephant.xml
4–5 ↗(On Diff #12520)

How about 2, 5, 10? That means they effectively take +37% damage. Given their structure-like function, they shouldn't be too vulnerable to ranged attacks.

12–15 ↗(On Diff #12520)

Moving the worker elephant from the centre to e.g. the corral is probably not a good idea. It's a bit unfortunate the elephant stable is a town phase structure.

Feldfeld added inline comments.Jul 2 2020, 4:13 PM
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/maur_support_elephant.xml
4–5 ↗(On Diff #12520)

Well, that's better than the values before the patch but still, I don't see why the elephant should be more resistant to arrows since after all, it's not a building.
If someone attacks an economic position and has the advantage, they will first try to kill as many workers as possible and then, if they don't have anything better they will capture the storehouse/farmstead. If instead it's an elephant it's still better to kill workers and only then the elephant if he didn't leave already. In both cases ranged units have a way to deal with the structure/elephant

12–15 ↗(On Diff #12520)

Even if it was done I'm unsure it would have been worth it to build the corral just to train worker elephants.

borg- added a subscriber: borg-.Jul 2 2020, 5:48 PM

I like the changes, and it's something that should have been done some time ago.
The main reason for not training is the long training time, it affects the economy a lot.
My suggestion for values:
Cost 120f and armour 2/2.

 

borg- added a comment.Jul 5 2020, 2:28 PM

With D2862, 15 secs can be better @Feldfeld.

wraitii accepted this revision.Jul 12 2020, 11:45 AM
wraitii added a subscriber: wraitii.

This seems like a good change. I'll you update following the merge of D2862 @Feldfeld

This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Jul 12 2020, 11:45 AM
wraitii requested changes to this revision.Jul 30 2020, 2:49 PM

Think @Feldfeld failed to notice ;)

This revision now requires changes to proceed.Jul 30 2020, 2:49 PM
borg- added a comment.Jul 30 2020, 5:21 PM

Can change author patch?

In D2852#126518, @borg- wrote:

Can change author patch?

There are many ways either when the author agrees you can comandeer the patch or you can also updating the patch by pushing your changes to this patch.

borg- added a comment.Jul 30 2020, 6:09 PM

Changes is good, i will like see this patch commited, but feldfeld offline for weaks.

borg- added a comment.Jul 30 2020, 6:54 PM

Just change <BuildTime>10</BuildTime> to <BuildTime>15</BuildTime> cuz D2862.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12964.Jul 30 2020, 7:33 PM
  • training time to 15, per @borg-
  • corrected <Loot>
borg- added a comment.Jul 30 2020, 8:23 PM
  • training time to 15, per @borg-
  • corrected <Loot>

Tnx @Nescio. What u think about armor 2/2, more realistics?

Yes. Feel free to update the patch, like I did, or if you intend to make further changes, consider commandeering it.
I actually dislike this patch, but if others really think it's an improvement, I have no real objections, worker elephants are not that important.

borg- added a comment.Jul 31 2020, 1:36 AM

Yes. Feel free to update the patch, like I did, or if you intend to make further changes, consider commandeering it.
I actually dislike this patch, but if others really think it's an improvement, I have no real objections, worker elephants are not that important.

I'm trying to update the patch but I'm not getting it, am I doing something wrong?

Anyway the values I changed are armor 2/2 and health for 200 (it doesn't make sense to have more health than an archer elephant).

In D2852#126596, @borg- wrote:

I'm trying to update the patch but I'm not getting it, am I doing something wrong?

If you're not using arcanist, you need to commandeer the revision first I believe.

bb accepted this revision.Dec 24 2020, 6:41 PM
bb added a subscriber: bb.

elephant archer has 4/3 armour. Can agree on the 2/2 propoed by borg also health ==200 seems good.

binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/maur_support_elephant.xml
12–14 ↗(On Diff #12964)

agree

35 ↗(On Diff #12964)

agree

borg- added a comment.EditedDec 24 2020, 6:58 PM

@Nescio can agree with my proposed values?

wraitii resigned from this revision.Thu, Dec 31, 10:12 AM
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Thu, Dec 31, 10:12 AM
Nescio requested changes to this revision.Thu, Dec 31, 12:17 PM

This patch needs to be rebased. The training time was already reduced to 15. Also, please remove the <Loot/xp>, worker elephants can't attack.
I agree with a reduction in resistance, but am not convinced reductions in health or cost are necessary; they're mobile and accept all resources; 150 food is cheaper than two farmsteads or storehouses (2×100 wood).

This revision now requires changes to proceed.Thu, Dec 31, 12:17 PM
borg- added a comment.Thu, Dec 31, 1:01 PM

Well i can agree with still 150 food cost.

borg- added a comment.Tue, Jan 19, 5:41 PM

I would like to have this for a24, can someone command this patch and rebase pls?

borg- added a comment.Wed, Jan 20, 1:17 PM

What about armour 2/2?

Feldfeld updated this revision to Diff 15564.Wed, Jan 20, 1:34 PM

Can do that.

borg- accepted this revision.Wed, Jan 20, 1:36 PM
borg- added a subscriber: soloooy0.

Anyway, I like the numbers proposed, they are better than the current situation.
@soloooy0 asked for this armor reduction because it looked a little mean, giving so many hits in an animal unit that cannot defend itself.

wraitii accepted this revision.Wed, Jan 20, 7:31 PM

This doesn't seem blatantly overpowered / borg wants it / valirhant & feldfeld are OK with it -> merge.

This revision was not accepted when it landed; it landed in state Needs Review.Wed, Jan 20, 7:34 PM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Wed, Jan 20, 7:34 PM