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[gameplay] tweak human training times
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Authored by Nescio on Jul 5 2020, 10:23 PM.

Details

Summary

A frequent complaint is that 0 A.D. is quite ‘spammy’, another that champions are too costly. This patch attempts to lessen that by making training time differences less pronounced, and slightly slowing down the game start a bit:

healer            :  8 → 15
slave             : 20 → 15
trader            :      15
worker elephant   : 20 → 15
female            :  8 →  9 (30 at house)
basic infantry    : 10 → 12
basic cavalry     : 15 → 16
champion infantry :      20
champion cavalry  : 30 → 27
champion elephant : 30 → 36

Probably more interesting than the absolute training times are the relative training times:

infantry 33% more than female citizens (instead of 25%)
cavalry 33% more than infantry (instead of 50%)
champions 67% more than basic citizens (instead of 100%)

The idea emerged from D2816.
While at it, it also removes unnecessary population lines.

Test Plan

Check for mistakes. Agree with the proposed values. Playtest a few games.

Diff Detail

Repository
rP 0 A.D. Public Repository
Lint
Automatic diff as part of commit; lint not applicable.
Unit
Automatic diff as part of commit; unit tests not applicable.

Event Timeline

Nescio created this revision.Jul 5 2020, 10:23 PM
Owners added a subscriber: Restricted Owners Package.Jul 5 2020, 10:23 PM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2591/display/redirect

borg- added a subscriber: borg-.EditedJul 6 2020, 12:32 AM

I'm not sure if it solves the spam problem, it seems to me that it just slow. I think that only the infantry and healer should increase training time, keeping the rest as it is. this would make the cavalry more effective and less penalized at the start of the game if a rush is unsuccessful. Increase a distance between women and infantry makes the player choose between more security and less economy, training soldiers, or vulnerability and more economy choosing women.

So which option do you prefer?

                A    B    C
female   :  8 →  9 |  8 |  9
infantry : 10 → 12 | 12 | 12
cavalry  : 15 → 18 | 16 | 15
healer   :  8 → 15 | 20 | 18

For the record, champion cavalry has 50% more training time than their infantry counterparts, though (D2816).

borg- added a comment.EditedJul 6 2020, 1:15 PM

So which option do you prefer?

                A    B    C
female   :  8 →  9 |  8 |  9
infantry : 10 → 12 | 12 | 12
cavalry  : 15 → 18 | 16 | 15
healer   :  8 → 15 | 20 | 18

I prefer C.

For the record, champion cavalry has 50% more training time than their infantry counterparts, though (D2816).

Yep. Anyway 27 for champion cavarly seems correct.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12572.Jul 6 2020, 1:24 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_unit_support_slave.xml
47–49 ↗(On Diff #12572)

Inherited from parent.

borg- added a subscriber: Feldfeld.EditedJul 6 2020, 1:34 PM

Seems good, would be nice @Feldfeld opnion.

borg- added a comment.Jul 6 2020, 1:36 PM

@Nescio with new women value, maybe you need check women trained on houses.

Vulcan added a comment.Jul 6 2020, 2:40 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2592/display/redirect

@Nescio with new women value, maybe you need check women trained on houses.

Those have 30, which is so high I don't think it needs to be changed.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12576.Jul 7 2020, 11:11 AM
Nescio retitled this revision from [gameplay] slightly increase citizen training time to [gameplay] tweak human training times.
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • Include champion training time changes.
  • Remove some unnecessary population lines.
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)Jul 7 2020, 11:16 AM
Nescio edited the test plan for this revision. (Show Details)
Nescio added inline comments.
binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_unit_cavalry.xml
25 ↗(On Diff #12576)

Inherited from template_unit.xml.

binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_unit_champion_cavalry.xml
9 ↗(On Diff #12576)

idem

binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_unit_support_slave.xml
28–30 ↗(On Diff #12576)

idem

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2594/display/redirect

borg- added a comment.Jul 7 2020, 1:25 PM

Champion cavalry with 24 may be a risk (spam late game). What about keep 20 for infantry and 27 for cavalry?

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 12592.Jul 8 2020, 9:36 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • champions 20, 27, 36, per @borg-
Vulcan added a comment.Jul 8 2020, 9:44 PM

Successful build - Chance fights ever on the side of the prudent.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2599/display/redirect

borg- added a comment.Jul 9 2020, 1:12 AM

New values look good to me now.

Lionkanzen added a subscriber: Lionkanzen.
borg- added a comment.Jul 27 2020, 5:43 PM

More opnions pls?

borg- added a comment.Aug 4 2020, 5:54 PM

This patch alone does not solve the spam problem, but is a clear improviment.
Gives champion elephant a fairer number.
I don't like the new value of the healer, but anyway they are within the planning for a general balance.

borg- accepted this revision.Aug 4 2020, 5:54 PM
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.Aug 4 2020, 5:54 PM
Nescio added a comment.Aug 4 2020, 9:42 PM

I don't like the new value of the healer,

It could be altered, if you think that's better. Is it too low? Or too high? If the latter, how about 15 (same as trader)? Maybe slave and worker elephant too?

borg- added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 1:15 AM

I don't like the new value of the healer,

It could be altered, if you think that's better. Is it too low? Or too high? If the latter, how about 15 (same as trader)? Maybe slave and worker elephant too?

I think 15 is a more appropriate number at the moment.

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 13076.Aug 5 2020, 4:06 PM
Nescio edited the summary of this revision. (Show Details)
  • healer, slave, worker elephant to 15 (same as trader), per @borg-
Vulcan added a comment.Aug 5 2020, 4:37 PM

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/2891/display/redirect

borg- accepted this revision.Aug 5 2020, 10:14 PM
Nescio removed a reviewer: Restricted Owners Package.Aug 15 2020, 9:03 PM
Stan added a subscriber: Stan.Sat, Nov 14, 3:30 AM

Can you rebase this?

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 13905.Sat, Nov 14, 11:43 AM
  • rebased

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/macos-differential/1873/display/redirect

Nescio updated this revision to Diff 14059.Thu, Nov 19, 12:42 PM
  • rebased

Build failure - The Moirai have given mortals hearts that can endure.

Link to build: https://jenkins.wildfiregames.com/job/docker-differential/3661/display/redirect

This revision was landed with ongoing or failed builds.Sat, Nov 21, 12:13 PM
This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes.